Quote# 4295

The issue is twofold:  1. That, as long as slavery was legal, it was the duty of Christian slaves to be obedient to their masters, 'not only to the good and gentle but also to the froward.'  2. That the word of God never judges a man for the mere fact of owning another man. To the contrary, it commends several slave owners in highest terms. For example, Abraham, the Roman Centurion, and Philemon.  The abolitionist and other social movements of the the 19th and early 20th centuries - namely the feminist movement, the "temperance" movement, the youth movements, and the socialist movement - greatly affected the Baptist approach to the Scriptures. It was during that time that Baptists began to exalt human wisdom above the Scriptures. Now we are moving towards the 'gay rights movement.' Just as before, there will be those who resist, but in a matter of time acceptance of homosexuality among Baptist churches will be common place.

Mark Osgatharp, BaptistBoard 13 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 0

Quote# 4296

The Abolition Movement was the culmination of BAD THEOLOGY, centered around Unitarian/Universalist belief. It was a humanistic, knee-jerk reaction to perceived ills. Until that movement there was never a problem with Baptists and slavery... The Feminist Movement was the culmination of BAD THEOLOGY form liberal churches that did not accept the Biblical teaching or authority about the role of women. It was a humanistic, knee-jerk reaction to perceived ills. Until that movement, only the most liberal of Baptists would even consider ordaining a woman. And on with Blacks and Civil Rights And Gay rights Think you're on to something here, Mark. Good post.

Dr. Bob Griffin, BaptistBoard 9 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 4297

[Replying to another, shocked poster]Do you believe the word of God commanded slaves to obey and respect their masters, whether those masters were believers or unbelievers?

Mark Osgatharp, BaptistBoard 5 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 4298

It was a movement of humanism, human self-worth, human as God. It was called Unitarianism (often called Universalism today). It's new Gospel was one of rights and dignity and good works - a social Gospel of 'do-gooders' to replace the blood of Christ. THAT group were the core of the rabid abolitionist movement sweeping some northern areas (like Massachusetts). Social programs, strong government laws, liberal liberal liberal agenda.

Dr. Bob Griffin, BaptistBoard 8 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 4299

If you are saying that the simple fact of owning another man is unjust then you must also assert that Roman slavery was unjust, for they, too, practiced human bondage. As far as the mistreatment of slaves, I agree it is wrong, but it does not chang the obligation of the slave to obey the master.

Mark Osgatharp, BaptistBoard 21 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 11

Quote# 4300

The only reason we think slavery is such a horrid evil is because we are so full of pride we don't like the idea of another man telling us what to do. Well tell me this, if God sees fit, in His providence, to make me subject to another man, who am I to complain of it? The anti-authority mentality that spawned the abolitionist movement is the same mentality that spawned the feminist movement, the 'children's rights' movement, and the 'sexual revolution' - aka hippy movement.

Mark Osgatharp, BaptistBoard 6 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 4301

There you go again [on segregation]! Because we were right back into the struggle over States' rights. You liberals really hate freedom as embodied in States' rights and freedom of association.

KenH, BaptistBoard 4 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 4302

I personally would not have held slaves. I would not have preached AGAINST it, though, and would have supported missionaries taking slaves with them to the field.

Dr. Bob Griffin, BaptistBoard 13 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 4303

And may I suggest that you drop the debate logic and put up scripture to back up your ideaology.

Kent Witcher, BaptistBoard 7 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 11

Quote# 4304

I have not disparaged the African race in any manner. I have been careful to say that if I myself were subjected to slavery it would be my duty to be submissive to my master. This discussion is not about race. It is about the fact that the word of God commands slaves - white, black, or otherwise - to be obedient to their masters.

Mark Osgatharp, BaptistBoard 13 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 1

Quote# 4305

This is one of the best observations in all the threads about North/South, slavery, etc. In spite of who was right or wrong (or whether both may have had some right and wrong, or both were all wrong), this observation on God's providence ought to give us pause.

rlvaughn, BaptistBoard 0 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 4306

Furthermore, if practicing slavery is wrong then Paul was wrong when he so highly commended Philemon, a slave owner, with the following words:... [<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=Philemon+1%3A1-7">Philemon 1:7</a>] That sure sounds to me that slave-owning Philemon possessed authentic Christianity.

Mark Osgatharp, BaptistBoard 2 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 0

Quote# 4307

So, you are saying that all those slaveholders that the apostle Paul called his brothers in Christ were not Christians. You think you are right and the apostle Paul(and the New Testament) are wrong. That's highly presumptuous on your part, I would say.

KenH, BaptistBoard 5 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 4308

If it [slavery] is NOT condemned in Scripture, then where to we find the moral basis to justify our moral outrage against it?... Just because you or I or some group finds something "morally offensive", if it doesn't have a base in the Bible, we are on thin ice.

Dr. Bob Griffin, BaptistBoard 11 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 4309

Regardless of the Bible[, you condemn slavery]? Do you then advocate making our 'moral sense' authoritative rather than the Bible?

rlvaughn, BaptistBoard 5 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 4310

The golden rule cannot be made to walk on all fours. Should a masochist say 'do to others what you would have them do to you,' then he might try to inflict bodily pain and suffering on others, since he enjoys pain and suffering. The golden rule must work within Biblical parameters. I would contend that Paul's instructions to [slave]masters illustrate the proper Biblical application of the golden rule and slavery.

rlvaughn, BaptistBoard 9 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 1

Quote# 4311

What could be considered torture might take several forms... Though we might find it offensive, God prescribed it under the law (stoning, scourging,... et.al), and hell's punishment is and the lake of fire will be torment... Torture <u>performed for pleasure</u>, would be sinful and devilish in nature..." [Emphasis added] - rlvaughn, <a href="http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=62;t=000016;p=6#000082">BaptistBoard</a> <hr color="#ffffff" noshade size="8"> <p align="center"><a name="update">Latest Update</a> <hr color="#ffffff" noshade size="8"> "'several basic pieces of knowledge' [are contradicted by Genesis]? Oh, so it has to be written in the technical jargon of Scientific American to be valid?... [Creationism is] 'Dishonest,' is it? Because it patently contradicts the acknowledged speculations of the nineteenth and twentieth (and maybe three from the 21st) centuries?... Abiogenesis is not itself evolution, but the current model of Evolution mandates abiogenesis.

Asahel, POD Warrior Forum 2 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 4312

The descendants of Noah's fancier specimens (behemoth, leviathan, velociraptor, et cetera, et al) do not seem to have adapted very well at all! to the brutal climate shift, and thus to have died out fairly thoroughly, although some question remains as to just when...

Asahel, POD Warrior Forum 5 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 4313

I don't think there's anything that would change them mind of the average atheist, but I guess there might be a few who could be converted, so this forum should remain open.

Northern Christian, Christian Forums 3 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 4314

It doesn't matter what we tell or show you, you will never believe, because you don't want God to exist.

Northern Christian, Christian Forums 13 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 4315

PS, I'm not a mind reader, but I am a forum reader. After reading threads here and on I[nternet]I[nfidels]D[iscussion]B[oard], it's pretty obvious that most atheists just don't want God to exist.

Northern Christian, Christian Forums 5 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 0

Quote# 4316

if your an Athiest do you want God to exist, no because then you would be an Agnostic, not an athiest

Godzman, Christian Forums 6 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 4317

The enemy tries to plant seeds of doubt. But that does not mean that we have to allow them to take root and grow... Even a mighty oak tree, God can pull it out, roots and all.

JohnR7, Christian Forums 3 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 4318

Apparently you're having doubts about the Christian faith because you don't see God's actions as revealed in Scripture as morally justifiable, correct? But keep in mind that if you reject God, then to maintain any kind of consistency, you must reject the very concept of morality right along with your rejection of a God...

A. believer, Christian Forums 12 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 4319

Evolution is the fanciful idea that everything created itself , its a wonderful bedtime story for those who desire to hide from the truth. Its also the ultimate self worship because it removes all accountability in the mind of its believer.

Boughtbythelamb, Rapture Ready 1 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3