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Whenever I have extended conversations with atheists and they mock the teachings of Jesus, they never seem to stop and think about what guys like me would be like in the absence faith. I promise this: I would be a very, very different person if I believed there was no God — and not for the better. I know myself and I know that I am a very flawed man. I am selfish. I am greedy. I struggle with a whole host of thoughts and desires that are clearly not in my higher self’s best interest. However, it is through my faith that I have been able to “embrace my better angels” more often than not. Deep down, I know when I have fallen short of the behavior God expects of me, and I rightly feel shame. I then pick myself up and attempt to become a better person.
44 comments
He didn't say anything about fearing punishment, he said he feels shame. I suspect he would still feel shame in the absence of religious belief, though. He would be ashamed that he fell short of the expectations of other people, instead of God.
You do realize there were guys like you before da Jebus, don't cha? Yeah, local judges either put them on a cross (oh, the irony!) or forced them to join the Roman Army, where they spent the next thirty years getting their asses kicked by Centurians until they straightened up or died in some shithole.
Try not to be more of a dumbass then you are. Threats from internet tough guys do not impress.
Hey, if it works for you, great. Keep it up. I'm also perfectly capable of feeling good or feeling guilty about my actions, whatever the case may be. But I don't need to seek approval or fear punishment from some cosmic babysitter like a little child. Simply feeling good or bad about what I've done is good enough for me.
Once again, not being a douchebag for fear of eternal retribution doesn't make you a better person. It means your religion has too much control over your life. You should want to be a good person simply for the good of yourself and those around you.
If you have to be guilted or threatened into being a decent human being, you've learned or accomplished nothing.
It's frightening that there are some people who have morals or scruples only because they're afraid of their imaginary friend. It's only one small step to their imaginary friend approving of everything they do.
Those of us who are good people without having to worry about eternal punishment get along just fine without a god.
Douglas... just because YOU need a scary imaginary sky fairy to terrify you into pretending to be a decent person, does not mean that everyone else suffers your shortcoming.
some of us are just naturaly decent people.
If you need your religion to stay a good person, you're not a good person to begin with.
Answer me this: Who is more moral; the person who is it out of fear of retribution or the person who is moral out of their own free will?
And yet:
- People in other faiths have the same struggles as you and the same results, while believing in completely different deities
- And people with NO faith at all have the same struggles as you and the same results, while believing in no deity at all.
So all you're saying is that you need a mental and emotional crutch to be a decent person.
they mock the teachings of Jesus
Jesus said a lot of very good things. But that doesn't make him the son of god and a saviour.
they never seem to stop and think about what guys like me would be like in the absence faith.
I certainly do. I've often wondered how absolutely dreadful horrible people like Rick Perry or Rick Santorum would be if they weren't checked at least in some minute way by some things Jesus said.
I mean, they can't really get much worse than they already are, despite their "faith", but still the thought that they could be worse is almost frightening.
Whenever I have extended conversations with theists and they cite the teachings of Jesus, they never seem to stop and think about what guys like me would be like with faith. I promise this: I would be a very, very different person if I believed there was a god and not for the better. I know myself and I know that I am a very flawed man. I am selfish. I am greedy. I struggle with a whole host of thoughts and desires that are clearly not in my higher self’s best interest. However, it is by knowing that I have no second chance that I have been able to “embrace my better angels” more often than not. Deep down, I know when I have fallen short of the behavior others expect of me, and I rightly feel shame. I then pick myself up and attempt to become a better person.
This doesn't really seem fundie to me. He's talking about himself, but he's not projecting his own flaws onto anyone else. Faith is many things to many people. In this man's case, it seems to be a tool to make himself a better person than he otherwise would be. He's not saying that we all need faith to be better people, only that he does.
quite why religion is necessary for that in this day and age is still beyond me.
If you think you are a bad person... change? It's hard, sure, but it works.
Meh.
Deep down, I know when I have fallen short of the behavior God expects of me
It's hardly anything 'deep down', the Christian doctrine of 'original sin' is explicit that every human who's ever been born falls short of the behavior God demands ( nb doesn't 'expect' as He knows you can only fail ) from the second they take their first breath
So why not defy Him, commit every self-indulgence and atrocity you can think of during your lifetime if you believe a deathbed repentance will get you off the 'eternal torture' hook you seem so worried about?
You need God (and Satan) because you're afraid of really becoming an adult and taking full responsibility for your own actions. As one of "God's children," you are exactly that, and God is your surrogate grown-up.
Grow up, and you might discover that self preservation and the greater good win out over self-indulgence, so long as you make it a point to THINK about it. You can hold yourself to a higher standard, you know, without all that mummery and flummery.
This is why as an atheist I hate religion.
Without the constant threat of eternal torment you would be an asshole.
I prefer the thought that if I am not at least somewhat bearable my neighbors will kill me.
Have a nice day and dont let God smite you.
The self-loathing of the religious zealot is the same self-loathing that drives the heroin addict to the needle and the alcoholic to the bottle. It blunts the pain, but does nothing to resolve the underlying issues that cause that pain, the feelngs of worthlessness and despair, as revealed here.
Why berate this guy? I see a guy who wants to be a better person and the path that works for him is to try to be the person he believes his religion expects him to be. He's not, in this quote at least, judging anyone or trying to dictate how others should live.
I can respect that, actually. My parents and my brother are religious because it gives them comfort, for several reasons. And it has helped my brother get past some of his issues.
Thus, the reason faith like this was invented: as a means for enforcing social morals.
I know a lot of people don't have the fortitude to be good people without the fear or guilt associated with religion. If it helps them be better people, then great. It's only when they assume nobody can be good without religion, or that we must also follow their religion for whatever reason because to them, it's the only true and right path, that it becomes an issue.
I have no problem with this. Good for him finding something that helps him to be a better person. He's not saying we can't be good without his religion. Instead, he's complaining about being mocked for believing as he does. As an atheist of good conscience, I cannot abide this. He has a right to his beliefs so long as he doesn't attempt to force it upon anyone.
@NoLifeWithoutJesus
Eternal, non-stop excruciating hellfire torture? Such a deity doesn't deserve to exist, let alone be worshipped.
@1746886
When you're done in /b/, go back to r/spacedicks.
"Whenever I have extended conversations with atheists and they mock the teachings of Jesus, they never seem to stop and think about what guys like me would be like in the absence faith. I promise this: I would be a very, very different person if I believed there was no God and not for the better ."
...whereas, a certain long-time Christian named Jonathan Edwards had a conversation. With himself . He is now a very, very, [i]very[/i] different person after dispensing with 'be[i]lie[/i]f' in a nonexistent 'God' . And for the [i]better[/i].
No flies on him, post -recanting of his belie fs & becoming an Atheist; his star is on the ascendant, P.R.-wise. Spotless public image, too.
He's become a better person, post -becoming an Atheist. So what's your excuse, eh Douggie-boy?
"they never seem to stop and think about what guys like me would be like in the absence (OF)faith."
Same as y'all do IN IT!
It either fucking changes nothing about your urges or it's the fucking catalyst of them. Statistical runs one after another show religious belief not only to be NOT beneficial but has leanings toward many problematic behaviors.
@NoLifeWithoutJesus
You and you "sources" aren't fooling anyone here. Try some REAL points. Take one big step back to the origins of your myth, or should I say the myth of Babylon, Sumeria, Persia and Greece that they plagiarized your nonsense from.
Give up on the Testimonials, these are unproven assertions and in checking three already seen the debunk link in one. The Islamics, Buddhists, Hindus et al, an y'all can all list off hundreds, as can the UFOers, the Sasquacheans, and any ficticious shit ever imagined.
NoLifeWithoutJesus?
I really hope you enjoy the timeshare behind a Texas Burger King Bin you bought from that guy who definitely made several visits to Heaven recently. It's not like any of the YouTube stories you put up are about people making money on the circuit, now is it?
I know myself and I know that I am a very flawed man. I am selfish. I am greedy. I struggle with a whole host of thoughts and desires that are clearly not in my higher self’s best interest.
Douglas, you suffer from a condition known as "humanity." That's all.
"they never seem to stop and think about what guys like me would be like in the absence faith. "
Yes I know you would be killing and looting and raping and killing yourself. I wonder if you would mind doing it in the reverse order.
So you're a horrible person restrained only by your religion? Odd how many fundies claim that but anyway, if your religion encourages you to be a better person then, by all means, go on believing. Just don't attempt to force it on others.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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