How many times do we have to say it: EVOLUTION DOES NOT TOUCH UPON WHETHER OR NOT GOD EXISTS.
7/22/2006 2:21:05 AM
I feel for this guy, really I do. He is so absolutely convinced of the pure and specific truth he has been indoctrinated in that it simply breaks his heart that anyone would ever be exposed to any idea contrary to his faith and therefore wind up in a “not very nice” hell.
I think he is being sincere; his pain over imagining someone not attaining his heaven is palpable. If we hooked him up to a lie detector, I’m pretty sure his answer of “yes” to the question “do you say this out of love” would read as total honesty.
But his statement is a near perfect example of the ultimate problem of religion: he is convinced that he possesses absolute and final truth, and therefore anyone who holds a contrary belief must, by definition, be wrong. To correct them is an act of kindness and mercy. This is the point where the church started from that eventually ended with the Inquisition, the idea that it is better to torture someone into conversion than it is to treat them with respect and dignity. To the True-Believer, there is no choice but to aggressively evangelize. If you truly believe that you are in possession of the one, true path, then to not spread that truth as aggressively as possible, to not suppress any dissenting concept, is essentially an act of violence upon others.
Think of it this way. If you had a friend who was dying of cancer, and you had a true, working cure for cancer in your pocket, would you keep it to yourself? Would you let your friend go to chemotherapy when you had a simple pill that would instantly cure it? Would you say, “it’s his choice to believe in the chemo, and the fact that I have a simple cure I know will work is unimportant,” or would you ram that pill down his throat to save his life?
That’s how pretty much all dogmatic religious people think. It’s a kind of deliberate intellectual blindness.
7/22/2006 2:38:45 AM
Napoleon the Clown
My concern is the damage the teaching of evolution as fact in our schools is leading our young people away from God. If they are taught, and believe that God was not involved in creating the universe, then there is a great danger that they will turn out atheistic, and end up in a place that is not very nice.
And let me guess, teaching that pi is not exactly three will do the same?
7/22/2006 2:58:13 AM
The problem is you have no idea what your children really learn at school as you are completely disconnected from that world and only get bits and pieces fed back at you. Usually, to please you, children will even embellish the situation while ending with a comment that lets you know that they resisted this \"nonsense\" despite all odds as that is what you want to hear.
Maybe schools have changed, but when I was there they never tried to claim evolution was fact. The teachers were always extra careful to be politically correct and explain that it is a scientific theory and while there's a chance it could be wrong, it has very good facts to support it. They then taught you those facts and if you cared enough you were able to use your rational mind to see if they lead you to the same conclusion.
Anyway, if it makes you feel better the thing that turned me off from all organized religion and your view of a god, was history. Mythology was a favorite topic of mine and I had been reading books about it for as long as I could remember in my free time. Finally, I decided that your mythology was no different and attempted to look further into the idea of a higher power. Less than a year later, I came to the conclusion that there was no evidence for a higher power and in explaining this to my parents they introduced the word atheist to me. So, if you want to slice and dice your child's education so you can continue brainwashing them with 2,000+ year old dogma, perhaps you should start with the history department. Or perhaps English since it teaches children to read for themsleves and even the bible is filled with things that may turn them away from your god.
7/22/2006 5:59:44 AM
The danger is not those being led away from \"God,\" the danger is too many people still believe ancient stories of desert tribemen are a valid basis for modern society and hold the key to eternal paradise.
7/22/2006 3:46:33 PM
I feel almost well disposed towards prophecystudent. Misguided as he may be, at least he doesn't preach the suffocating hatred many others quoted on this site do.
7/22/2006 9:15:55 PM
Sandman, you have it exactly right. My late companion, who was a devout fundie (but also a really cool woman in most other ways) likened the situation to seeing me about to walk off a cliff that, for whatever reason, I could not see -- so she was desperately trying to \"help\" me see it and avoid falling. The sentiment was entirely positive and sincere, and her efforts were made in love, so I did not resent that; but I did resent the blind fundie arrogance that caused her to deny that there was no possibility that SHE could be wrong.
7/23/2006 12:11:34 AM
Why is it that none of these people can even think that perhaps evolution *is* God's plan? Why the insistance that they know the mind of God?
7/23/2006 10:28:16 AM
\"damage the teaching of evolution\"
This assumes that evolution is a lie.
\"leading our young people away from God\"
This assumes that christianity is the truth.
My bet is you cannot prove or disprove either. Keep studying your bible, prophecystudent, the truth will eventually smack you right in the forehead.
7/24/2006 7:59:46 AM
And let me guess, teaching that pi is not exactly three will do the same?
Now now, even the staunchest Biblical Literalist fundy doesn't use the pi = 3 argument. (They claim the wording allows for the diameter of the molten sea to have been rounded off to 10 cubits, even though the actual diameter was closer to 9.5 cubits.)
7/24/2006 7:52:09 PM
"and end up in a place that is not very nice."
1/19/2008 5:03:28 AM
Since the beliefs of the people concern only to them, I don´t know why you´re so insecure and whinny.
8/10/2009 6:12:38 AM
I learned evolution and I'm not atheist. Though I prefer atheists to fundies. Oh and it's taught as fact because ORGANISMS ADAPT TO THEIR FUCKING ENVIRONMENTS AND THUS IT'S FACT
7/25/2012 7:28:16 PM
Professor von SCIENCE!!!
prophecystudent is right! Evolution is a lie because we were created... by the elder things! And once Azathoth gives the go ahead we will all be destroyed because he is the beginning and end of all things. Unless Cthulhu gets us first. Man, religion is freaking complicated.
1/15/2013 12:08:22 AM
Teaching evolution is just as non-Godly as teaching algebra. Both have just as much to say about the creation of the Universe; nothing.
If anything is turning the young people away from God, it's the behavior of people who call themselves religious, and the very old-fashioned teachings of the Bible.
Most atheists seem much more calm, generous and emphatic than the Religious Right people, and other highly religious people. Where is the "not very nice" in that? We're making you look bad by comparison?
There is no evolutionists hype, there is just adhering to reality.
1/15/2013 12:38:06 AM
My concern is the damage the teaching of religion as fact in our schools is leading our young people away from science. If they are taught, and believe that science is not a logical way to look at the universe, then there is a great danger that they will turn out fundie, and end up in a place that is not very nice.
The danger is to the logical minds who are fooled by all of the religious hype, to the detriment of their logical thought processes and minds.
There, fixed it.
1/15/2013 1:46:30 AM
Isn't your god supposed to be just? Why would he throw a good person into hell just for being an atheist?
Oh, and by the way, evolution =/= atheism. Many, many Christians accept evolution.
1/15/2013 12:40:10 PM