[Say, this wouldn't by any chance be the same "sick twisted warmongering Jewish 'god'" that Jesus prayed to and claimed was his father, would it?]
No, you got the wrong deity. Jesus Christ was the greatest opponent of the evil Jewish "god."
76 comments
So now there are 2 gods they admit to. And where in your Wholly Babble does this piece of enlightment come from? Book, chapter(s), and verse(s), please. I gotta read this for myself.
Wow. What's with all the denying that Jesus was Jewish all of a sudden? We've got two comments close to each other that claim that.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that many of these so-called "Christian fundamentalists" are, in fact, nothing of the sort.
Based on what I know of the old Testament, I'm gonna have to agree with the 'God is Evil' thing. But now you're saying that Jesus was his father's worst enemy, despite almost constantly praying to him.
The Jewish "god" is Satan, and the Jews are his children.They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
(Gospel According to Saint John viii. 39-44)
Far more enlightning than anything you have contributed so far. BTW, which are you calling Satanic imposters, modern Jews or Israel of the Bible. I assume you are referring to Modern Jews, but it isn't clear the way you worded it.
The way I worded it and basic common sense considering the context make it quite. The people who call themselves "Jews" today are not those of the Bible.I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee.
(The Apocalypse Of Saint John ii., iii. 9)
At the time Jesus preached, his Father and the Jewish God (AKA Yahweh) we're understood to be one and the same.
"Wow, I can see people here cannot do anything but call people they disagree with "fundies." How enlightening.... "
Defensor Fidei:
"Jews today still read the Torah. It's still their most important document. Jews today still worship the god of the Torah (Yahweh). Yes, they have other important documents, but their core belief is in the Torah and the god of Genesis and Exodus. Is this not the same god that was supposedly Jesus' father?"
Defensor Fidei:
You, of course, Defensor, understand that the concept of "Satan" does not exist in the "Torah", and the only reference to anything approaching that is in the book of Job? Job, by the way, is not part of the Torah.
Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
Nice try, ass-wipe.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with those quotes, Defensor Fidei. Perhaps that jews think they are better than non-jews? That they think non-jews are like beasts? So what? I've heard the same think from christians, muslims, and atheists.
"Nice try, ass-wipe." "I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with those quotes, Defensor Fidei. Perhaps that jews think they are better than non-jews? That they think non-jews are like beasts? So what? I've heard the same think from christians, muslims, and atheists."
The Jews believe they are better than non Jews not because of religion but because of their race. This is racial supremacism.
"So how is it that modern jews are worshiping Satan, unless ancient jews and christians are also worshiping Satan?"
The Talmud and teachings of the rabbis take precedence over the Torah. Modern-day Judaism is not the religion of the Old Testament.
"The Jews believe they are better than non Jews not because of religion but because of their race. This is racial supremacism." "The Talmud and teachings of the rabbis take precedence over the Torah."
Says who? Have you asked any jews what document take precedence in their religion?
And even if the Talmud does take precedence over the Torah for some jews, how does that mean they worship Satan? As long as they still believe in the Torah, they're still worshiping the god of the Torah.
For christians, the gospels take precidence over the Torah, but that doesn't mean they aren't still worshiping Yahweh. Much less does it mean that they are worshipping Satan. How are jews any different?
Give me the source of your translations.
"I've heard the same things from christian racists. That doesn't mean those christians worship the devil. Much less does it mean that ALL christians worship the devil." "Says who? Have you asked any jews what document take precedence in their religion?"
The Talmud itself demands this. Rabbis even defeat their "god" himself in debates in the Talmud.
"And even if the Talmud does take precedence over the Torah for some jews, how does that mean they worship Satan? As long as they still believe in the Torah, they're still worshiping the god of the Torah."
Jesus Christ told them otherwise...
"We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing."
--Rabbi Yitzak Ginsburg
"Hey, asswipe, come get some."
You are correct, asswipe, but did not answer 1 of my questions. Do you read/write/speak Hebrew? The forum is open, and I will await your responses there.
"Christians are not a race..." "The Talmud itself demands this."
So? Many documents (like the new testament) claim to take precidence over the Torah, which itself claims precidence over other religious systems. The question is how much precidence an individule gives to these documents. So I ask again, have you talk to any jews and asked them what document is most important to their religion?
"Jesus Christ told them otherwise..."
Where?
And even if he did, simple logic tells us otherwise. Jews believe in the Torah, and the god of the Torah (Yahweh, the god of Adam and Abraham and Moses). Christians believe in the Torah, and the god of the Torah (Yahweh, the god of Adam and Abraham and Moses). They have different aditional document and beliefs, sure, but their beliefs are both based on the same books of the Torah, which tells them what god to worship (Yahweh), therefor they believe in the same god.
"Wow, ad hominem and again with the labels. Are these characteristics of "anti-fundie" debate?
And that makes a difference how? You are claiming that jews are racist. I'm telling you that many christians are racist. "So? Many documents (like the new testament) claim to take precidence over the Torah, which itself claims precidence over other religious systems. The question is how much precidence an individule gives to these documents. So I ask again, have you talk to any jews and asked them what document is most important to their religion?"
Some will say the Talmud; others will lie and say the Torah. Judaism is based on precepts of "free interpretation" so each Jew is free to make up his own version of the religion.
Where?
Did you miss this?
They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
(Gospel According to Saint John viii. 39-44)
Spak and whitewater will warrant a response when they learn to how to have an intelligent conversation open to ideas rather than a bash fest... I am glad this provides you with such comedy...
You know what the worst thing is? It's something that was brought to my attention by a co-worker while having a religious discussion in the lab.
Lets see if I understand this.
<< And that makes a difference how? You are claiming that jews are racist. I'm telling you that many christians are racist. >>That's a non sequitur. Christians are not a race; there is no Christian Supremacism based on genetics.
D.F., are you being deliberately obtuse on this point? He's not saying that Christianity is genetic. He is saying that many racists are Christian, and many even use Christianity (i.e., Christian traditions and biblical passages, often out of context or wildly misinterpreted) to try to justify their racism. This doesn't mean that Christianity is racist; it means that racism can appear anywhere and will twist any doctrine to suit its agenda.
~David D.G.
"Christians are not a race; there is no Christian Supremacism based on genetics." "Some will say the Talmud; others will lie and say the Torah. Judaism is based on precepts of "free interpretation" so each Jew is free to make up his own version of the religion."
Says who? have you asked any? And if so, so what? There are many different interpretations of christianity. Does that mean that christians are worshiping Satan?
As for your bible quote. Jesus seems to be chiding them for not accepting him. Is your argument that real jews would have accepted Jesus and become christians?
Well, that goes with the fact that he was celebrating Passover to glorify the Jewsish god, and firing trade men because they were insulting his "father's" house. Man, you live in the moon.
Spak and whitewater will warrant a response when they learn to how to have an intelligent conversation open to ideas rather than a bash fest...
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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