Quote# 14289

[Worst analogy ever: faith in God is like being tied and bound to a chair and ordered to believe in the existence of stationary]

He used the example of a pencil being on a desk; You cant question whether that pencil is fact or not because you can see it. But people question wether God is real or not because you cant see him. But then I began to think. What if someone put the pencil inside the desk, therefore, nullifying your ability to see it. They then tied you to a chair so you could not look inside the desk, to proove that it was-or was not- there. And they bound your hands, to restrain you from feeling the presence of the pencil. They ordered you to believe. They told you to belive that the pencil was there, that the unknown was fact and the possible deception was absolute truth. And you did; you did believe. You saw the pencil cast a shadow (like christians feeling the presence of God) and your mnd was made. But then you failed to see it for days to came (like christains doubting their faith). Suddenly the person who bound let you free (a metaphor of dying) and you were able to see fi the pencil was their or not; it was.

tidus_rox, Eyes on Final Fantasy 43 Comments [8/27/2006 12:00:00 AM]
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Submitted By: Raistlin

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1. If the pencil is in the desk, you can not see the pencil cast a shadow.
2. If someone had me tied hand and foot to a chair, I really don't give a rats ass if the pencil really exists or not.
3. Please let yourself free (a metaphor of dying) and find out about the pencil for yourself.

8/27/2006 2:57:45 PM


If you can't see the pencil(And it won't cast a shadow... it's in a dask)... then how is it logical to believe there's a pencil in the desk?

8/27/2006 3:27:26 PM



I was going to submit this. :(

8/27/2006 3:41:13 PM


With deep thinking like this, why isn't tidus_rox the ruler of the world?

8/27/2006 3:50:44 PM


CAST A SHADOW? How many transparent desks have you ever seen??

It's like Schrodinger's cat, except complete rubbish.

After such a carefully constructed analogy, I get the feeling the shadow was a hasty, badly thought-out retrofit when this guy proof read his scenario and finally understood for himself why we don't swallow that garbage.

I can just imagine this person carefully working out the situation, thinking how clever he was being and convinced logic would support his belief, then doing a final check and suddenly thinking OH SHIT! THEY'RE RIGHT! IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! WHAT DO I DO??

8/27/2006 4:08:46 PM

Lord Zeruel

Schrödinger's Pencil. If left unobserved it can both exist and not exist at the same time. =)

8/27/2006 4:43:16 PM

David D.G.

Christians can see a pencil's shadow when it is locked up inside a desk? Do they have X-ray vision or something? If so, I think the point of hiding the pencil in the desk is rather moot.

Besides, even IF one could see the pencil's shadow, but not the pencil itself, it does not necessarily follow that the shadow is cast by a pencil; it might be something else that is pencil-shaped, or that isn't even remotely pencil-shaped itself but casts a pencil-shaped shadow because it is mostly edge-on to the light. And that's IF you could see this shadow inside the freakin' desk, which is an unbelievably moronic addendum to the analogy.

Seriously, this has to be the lamest attempt at an analogy for faith that I have seen yet. I have faith, though, that I'll see a lamer one eventually.

~David D.G.

8/27/2006 4:46:15 PM


Come on, guys. It's a fairly apt analogy, it just doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

8/27/2006 4:56:35 PM


I'm reminded of a similar story about men chained up in a cave, their only pastime watching a shadow play cast on the wall in front of them by people they otherwise can't see. Or was that a song by They Might Be Giants?

If the desk was shifted and the pencil rattled inside, would that make the analogy work better?

8/27/2006 5:21:47 PM


Just change the pencil being there to the pencil not being there.

8/27/2006 5:50:09 PM


If the desk was shifted and the pencil rattled inside, would that make the analogy work better?

Only if there were some evidence for some sort of creator but not any particular deity.

Hearing a rattling noise as the desk is moved tells you there's something in there, and you can maybe get an idea of the size of the object, but you wouldn't have any more than a vague idea of its shape from the pattern of the sound (a small screwdriver would sound very similar to a pencil, for instance).

8/27/2006 6:02:54 PM

Dante's Virgil

Then by your own analogy, God is a sadist, and why in the hell would you want to believe in someone who purposely ties you down and prevents you from discovering things yourself!?

Unless you like that sort of thing, of course...

8/27/2006 6:10:16 PM

Napoleon the Clown

And how is that... creature... just and loving?

8/27/2006 6:48:33 PM


So, God prevents you from knowing... and then puts your eternal soul in the balance over your blind guess?

Sounds about right. Basing everything on faith isn't just troublesome for us, it's immoral on God's part.

8/27/2006 6:59:06 PM


I would call that person a sadist and to quote Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

8/27/2006 7:07:47 PM


Why do people have these discussions on computer game or anime forums?

8/27/2006 7:30:51 PM


It doesn't work for me any way you tell it. The problem is that I know pencils exist. I've seen them, held them, and used them. Someone telling me there's one in a desk even though I can't see it is not that far fetched.
God has never made himself known to me, or to the world, as long as I've been alive. I can't see him, smell him, touch him (you get the point).

8/27/2006 7:44:35 PM


It's funny, but I actually suffered through this exact scenario. I was tied to a chair a forced to believe that there was a pencil inside a desk in front of me. When I was finally freed, I looked into the desk to see the pencil.

It was a pen.

Fucking Muslims.

8/27/2006 8:52:38 PM


Pencils exist. This would make more sense if you were tied to a chair and someone told you there was a unicorn in the desk.

8/27/2006 9:08:23 PM

Mary Sunshine

And your point is?

8/27/2006 9:41:09 PM


I would believe that here wasa pencil in the desk. Who cares? Pencils are quiet common in desks, and there not being a pencil in your desk doesn't mean anything apart from you having to buy a new pencil.

But god on the oter hand, there has yet to be proof that he exists, let alone that he fits in a desk.

8/27/2006 10:24:22 PM


Stupidest Analogy of the MOnth Award.

8/27/2006 10:32:24 PM



8/27/2006 10:46:47 PM


Me too. I got a kick out of the Schrödinger's Pencil, though.

8/27/2006 11:34:04 PM


If a bunch of people tied me to a chair, I don't think I'd be all that concerned about the contents of their writing desks.

8/27/2006 11:35:24 PM

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