[In an article, headlined "Science Friction," that deals with politicians' views on issues of stem cell research and evolution:]
[Mike] Jenkins falls back on the argument that because evolution is a theory, it has yet to be proved. He believes that any class that includes evolution should also include creationism.
Jenkins says that depending on how you count years, the Earth could simultaneously be 10,000 years old and 4.8 billion years old.
"I think you can combine the two," Jenkins says. "Being extreme in either way is bad. I think you have to look at it and say, this is possible. It could be 10,000 years, or it could be 10 billion years. Don't be absolute and finite. You have to look at this with a scientific mind."
30 comments
4.5 billion years isn't an extreme, it's a scientific fact.
Don't be absolute and finite. You have to look at this with a scientific mind. Don't be scientific, but be scientific?
Okay, we'll combine the two: The Universe is 4,800,010,000 years old.
Jenkins says that depending on how you count years, the Earth could simultaneously be 10,000 years old and 4.8 billion years old
This guy is so smugly disingenuous (and/or stubbornly ignorant) that he just makes me want to scream.
""I think you can combine the two," Jenkins says. "Being extreme in either way is bad. I think you have to look at it and say, this is possible."There are issues on which one cannot compromise. If I say that 2 + 2 = 4 and you say that 2 + 2 = 6, we are no better off if we agree that it is 5.
"It could be 10,000 years,"
No, it most assuredly cannot be but 10,000 years old.
"or it could be 10 billion years."
No, I think the current best scientific assessment is that the universe is about 15 billion years old and the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. Notice that neither of these figures is 10,000 nor 10 billion.
"Don't be absolute and finite."
Is that what you tell your doctors? "Hey, Doc, take out my tonsils, or my wisdom teeth, or my liver. Just be sure you take something, OK?"
"You have to look at this with a scientific mind."
Yes, it would be good if you would start doing that.
Jenkins says that depending on how you count years, the Earth could simultaneously be 10,000 years old and 4.8 billion years old. It could be 10,000 years, or it could be 10 billion years. Don't be absolute and finite. You have to look at this with a scientific mind.
Looking at it with a scientific mind all but guarantees that you will recognize it as being about 4.6 billion years. That you do not speaks volumes about your mindset.
Julian, I'm sure that's a good part of what's going on here; he's trying to avoid alienating any potential voters, so he's trying to claim that he's in support of both camps, even though their views are mutually exlusive. He's going to try to keep one foot in the boat and one on the pier, hoping that he can keep from falling into the water at least until after the votes are in.
Reminds me of when Kang and Kodos were both running for president...
"Jenkins says that depending on how you count years, the Earth could simultaneously be 10,000 years old and 4.8 billion years old."
Jenkins says that depending on how you count years, the Earth could simultaneously be 10,000 years old and 4.8 billion years old. Machine translations are imperfect. Single-tired-person translations may be equally flawed. Politician-to-English translator now engaged.
Translation:
Since I'm running for office, I must appease everyone I can and avoid pissing off anyone. It doesn't actually matter whether I'm telling the truth or even making any sense at all.
Look, Mr. Jenkins, this isn't going to work. You'll sound like a dipshit for contradicting yourself, creationists will hate you for suggesting that they could possibly be wrong, and scientists will oppose you for giving validity to garbage. Mr. Jenkins, scientists and creationists are playing completely different ball games, and if you sit on the fence between the two fields, you'll never be able to play either game.
Of course, this position might convince people who know absolutely nothing about science, but don't assume they know everything; since these people don't know how old the Earth is (and won't look it up), they may assume you're "reasonable" for treating every idiot's ideas as if they have equal validity. Of course, there are very few people who don't know the (approximate) age of the Earth and who aren't raving creationists who ignore the evidence.
"I think you can combine the two," Jenkins says.
Yes, this is true.
4,500,000,000 years
+ 10,000 years
4,500,010,000 years.
That doesn't mean you've done anything meaningful. Obviously, the Earth could be 4,500,010,000 years old, but we can't determine the Earth's age so precisely with the methods currently available. (If I'm wrong, please correct.)
"Being extreme in either way is bad.
Suppose you get into a serious accident, and your leg is completely severed. The doctor says: "Well, either there's nothing wrong with your leg, or it's completely severed." Would you tell the doctor that "being extreme in either way is bad;" that your leg is neither intact nor severed, but perhaps broken?
I think you have to look at it and say, this is possible. It could be 10,000 years, or it could be 10 billion years.
Yes, the Earth could be 10,000 years old, or it could be 10 billion years old. It is , however, 4.5 billion years old, or thereabouts.
Don't be absolute and finite.
It's wrong to be absolute? In science, you have to be absolute!
OK, I get the problem. You're a politician, not a scientist. For scientists, determining reality is the ultimate goal; for politicians, the ultimate goal is winning the election reality is a useful tool if it agrees with you, but must be covered up if it doesn't. Since you have trouble understanding what science does and how it works, I'll explain your error in terms you can understand.
"The election results: Mike Jenkins won between 30% and 70% of the vote, but we chose not to be absolute in our counting. Mr. Jenkins could simultaneously have won and lost the election, depending on how you count votes. Since being extreme is bad, we'll combine everyone and hand the office to Jenkins and all of his opponents. They'll all have to agree, then make a decision as a group."
You have to look at this with a scientific mind.
Yeah, because science says that the Earth is 4.5 billion AND 10,000 years old at the same time. Right.
Being scientific means questioning everything, not accepting everything. Being scientific means always admitting that you might be wrong, not assuming that everything you think of is right, even when you start to contradict yourself.
Actually, putting on an act of accepting everything and believing everyone's ideas are right pretty much describes politics!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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