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Quote# 14370

Because NOTHING can be that one-in-infinity chance. That's the nature of infinity. The only chance of a single finite result in infinite possibility is with infinite attempts. And if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there. Because on of those infinite realities would have exactly the properties to turn an entire universe into a single sentient lifeform (life in this case is a loose term).

udsuna, Eyes on Final Fantasy 30 Comments [8/31/2006 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Raistlin
WTF?! || meh
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Skaloop

Quick! Engage the infinite improbability drive!

8/31/2006 4:30:34 AM

Hadanelith

No. If there is any chance whatsoever, then, poof, there's a chance. There is never a certainty, nor is there ever a total uncertainty. There are no guarantees. As for deities, there is no chance at all. Not one in infinity, but literally zero. As such, no deity can exist, regardless of many universes.

8/31/2006 4:31:08 AM

Patches

Here, try this:

Throw a ball. There are infinite exact places where it could land. By your reasoning, since the ball has a one-in-infinity chance of landing any particular place, the ball will never land.

8/31/2006 4:42:36 AM

DoctorX

By that logic the universe can't exist because there's an infinite number of parallel universes in which there is a chance of someone developing a multiverse-destroying bomb.

8/31/2006 5:00:48 AM

Amos

Originally posted by DoctorX

By that logic the universe can't exist because there's an infinite number of parallel universes in which there is a chance of someone developing a multiverse-destroying bomb.
Which reminds me of Tenchi, an anime in which Washu (an old not-quite-evil genius who gave herself the body of a 13-year-old) is said to have developed a machine gun that fires universe-destroying bullets.

That has always been my favorite example of overkill.

8/31/2006 5:10:08 AM

Napoleon the Clown

Originally posted by Patches

Here, try this:

Throw a ball. There are infinite exact places where it could land. By your reasoning, since the ball has a one-in-infinity chance of landing any particular place, the ball will never land.

Ah, but there is also the possibility the ball will not come down as well, so it cannot do that. And there's also a possibility it will coninue to exist. That means it would have to stop existing, but even that has a chance of occurring. Paradoxes rock, no?

8/31/2006 5:22:45 AM

Theironpaperclip

Have you ever heard of the 0 property? It states that any number multiplied by 0 = 0. That number could even be infinite.

8/31/2006 5:31:19 AM

Mary Sunshine

HAH??

8/31/2006 5:45:24 AM

Catbert18

It must be the \"new math\" they're using.

8/31/2006 6:00:36 AM

Redhunter

\"if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there.\"

Since this is the only part that makes sense to me, please explain how this is so.

8/31/2006 6:28:05 AM

NotMe

Originally posted by \"

Here, try this:

Throw a ball. There are infinite exact places where it could land. By your reasoning, since the ball has a one-in-infinity chance of landing any particular place, the ball will never land.


That is not what he is saying. he is saying that in an infinite number of tries you'll get an infinite number of results. And at least one of those results will be what you needed it to be, the existence of a god in this case.

In other words, if you trow the ball an infinite number of times, it will land on all the possible places.

8/31/2006 6:36:28 AM

Julian

Well the most obvious problem with your theory is - apart from there being no evidence of multiple universes, the probability of \"God\" existing in this particular one of 'infinte' universes is 0.

The really bad news udsana, is in this particular universe, I happen to be your God, and I am most displeased with your stupidity. Hurl yourself forthwith into the nearest volcano so as to appease my anger.

8/31/2006 8:32:37 AM

AWP

Drugs are bad oke....

8/31/2006 10:56:35 AM

Mister Spak

\"And if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there.\"

Actually it guarantees there are an infinite number of gods, thus creating a new type of religion - infinitheism.

8/31/2006 12:05:55 PM

Ens

infinity * 0 = indeterminate.

This is NOT the same thing as > 0.

EDIT TO ADD:

Theironpaperclip: I think it is reasonable to formulate his ideas as limiting to infinity and zero simultaneously. His 1/infinity nonsense certainly suggests it. Nevertheless, in truly absolute terms, you are correct.

Julian: To play Devil's ironic advocate, if there were a God in any of these universes, then his all-powerfulness should be able to cross him over into our universe.

Mr. Spak: Well, only if he had a finite nonzero probability to begin with. But although it's confusingly worded, I think he's admitting an infinitesimal probability.

There's also the philosophical argument that there is no meaningful difference between 2 Gods (in the Christian omnimax sense) and 1 God. An infinity of Gods is the same thing as one God that encompasses the entire infinity.

*brain explodes*

8/31/2006 12:15:25 PM

Sandman

Wow, some major logical problems and assumptions here.

The biggest problem is the fact that they seem to think that infinity is a number. It isn't. It's a concept. You can't actually make infinity work in a logical fashion in equations.

The second is the problem that they use a \"might\" statement to prove a \"guarantee\" concept.

8/31/2006 1:00:22 PM

Mister Spak

I agree. Udsuna seems to think infinity means a very large number that allows extremely improbable events to happen by chance.


8/31/2006 1:16:27 PM

Amos

Originally posted by Sandman

You can't actually make infinity work in a logical fashion in equations.
Well, with hyperreal and surreal numbers you can manipulate infinities and infinitesimals algebraically and mix them with regular numbers. In fact, hyperreals are the foundation of an equivalent, but non-standard, approach to calculus. Of course, these still don't support what Udsuna is trying to do.

8/31/2006 2:50:24 PM

Randola

Usually fundies COMPLAIN about random chance, but now god is a result of random chance?

8/31/2006 3:56:53 PM

jay

It would take an infinity of time just to figure out what he/she is saying!

8/31/2006 4:50:14 PM

Austin

What is he SAYING!?!?!?!?!?!?

8/31/2006 5:50:00 PM

TDR

\"infinite\"

you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

8/31/2006 7:21:09 PM

CousinTed

udsuna, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Please shut up.

8/31/2006 7:39:59 PM

Babbleon

Wow, quantum mechanics spawns a deity. Credit where credit's due, this is one of the best explanations of the origin of a god I've heard in a while. But then, that's not saying much here.

Most of the arguments have been covered -- the main one in my opinion is that you first must assume such a being could exist.

But there's also this: If a universe produced the god, then the god couldn't have created the universe (or multiverse). Therefore, this god can't be the Judeo-Christian God.

8/31/2006 9:27:09 PM

Julian

Originally posted by Ens

Originally posted by Julian

Well the most obvious problem with your theory is - apart from there being no evidence of multiple universes, the probability of \"God\" existing in this particular one of 'infinite' universes is 0.
Julian: To play Devil's ironic advocate, if there were a God in any of these universes, then his all-powerfulness should be able to cross him over into our universe.


Ah, what a cute derivation. Violates everything we know about the universe, but hey, that aside...

So, in an infinite number of universes (which cannot exist), not only would God exist, but so would an anti-God that would completely destroy God.

9/1/2006 12:05:48 PM
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