Because NOTHING can be that one-in-infinity chance. That's the nature of infinity. The only chance of a single finite result in infinite possibility is with infinite attempts. And if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there. Because on of those infinite realities would have exactly the properties to turn an entire universe into a single sentient lifeform (life in this case is a loose term).
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No. If there is any chance whatsoever, then, poof, there's a chance. There is never a certainty, nor is there ever a total uncertainty. There are no guarantees. As for deities, there is no chance at all. Not one in infinity, but literally zero. As such, no deity can exist, regardless of many universes.
Here, try this:
@DoctorX
By that logic the universe can't exist because there's an infinite number of parallel universes in which there is a chance of someone developing a multiverse-destroying bomb. Which reminds me of Tenchi, an anime in which Washu (an old not-quite-evil genius who gave herself the body of a 13-year-old) is said to have developed a machine gun that fires universe-destroying bullets.
@Patches
Here, try this:
Ah, but there is also the possibility the ball will not come down as well, so it cannot do that. And there's also a possibility it will coninue to exist. That means it would have to stop existing, but even that has a chance of occurring. Paradoxes rock, no?
"if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there."
@"Patches"
Here, try this:
That is not what he is saying. he is saying that in an infinite number of tries you'll get an infinite number of results. And at least one of those results will be what you needed it to be, the existence of a god in this case.
In other words, if you trow the ball an infinite number of times, it will land on all the possible places.
Well the most obvious problem with your theory is - apart from there being no evidence of multiple universes, the probability of "God" existing in this particular one of 'infinte' universes is 0.
"And if there are, in fact, infinite universes (and there very well might be) then that GUARANTEES there's a God out there."
infinity * 0 = indeterminate.
Wow, some major logical problems and assumptions here.concept. You can't actually make infinity work in a logical fashion in equations.
The second is the problem that they use a "might" statement to prove a "guarantee" concept.
@Sandman
You can't actually make infinity work in a logical fashion in equations. Well, with hyperreal and surreal numbers you can manipulate infinities and infinitesimals algebraically and mix them with regular numbers. In fact, hyperreals are the foundation of an equivalent, but non-standard, approach to calculus. Of course, these still don't support what Udsuna is trying to do.
Wow, quantum mechanics spawns a deity. Credit where credit's due, this is one of the best explanations of the origin of a god I've heard in a while. But then, that's not saying much here.
@Ens
@JulianWell the most obvious problem with your theory is - apart from there being no evidence of multiple universes, the probability of "God" existing in this particular one of 'infinite' universes is 0. Julian: To play Devil's ironic advocate, if there were a God in any of these universes, then his all-powerfulness should be able to cross him over into our universe.
"So, in an infinite number of universes (which cannot exist), not only would God exist, but so would an anti-God that would completely destroy God."
You are an idiot. In fact, you are so much of an idiot, any god would have killed you out of sheer mercy. You're still alive, ergo, there is no God. Q.E.D.
@mad dog: "Einstein presented the possibility of infinite parallel universes, so don't be so sure. Also, why would there need to be an Anti-God, if a god existed?"
I believe the idea is that, if an infinite number of universes (and thus infinite possibilities) 'guarantees' that there's a God out there by the sheer fact that there are infinite attempts, then - by extension - an infinite number of universes 'guarantees' everything. Including an 'anti-God' being, as well as the universe-destroying bomb mentioned earlier.
The logic here confuses me a little bit. There's no such thing as a one-in-infinity chance, as that isn't a fixed probability ratio, since infinity isn't a number.
That there seems to be the only difference between the logical argument for the possibility of the advent of a divine creature and the possibility of the Big Bang, where the Big Bang possibility is explained in that anything with a finite probability can happen over an infinite span of time (and since there is no fixed knowledge or estimation of the span of time between the Big Bang and... Whatever existed before it, complete emptiness I guess, it can be assumed that this span of time could be infinitely long). This is equivalent to saying that, no matter how improbable it may be, if you flip a quarter repeatedly over an infinite span of time, at some point in time it may land on its side and produce a result other than 'heads' or 'tails'.
If one assumes there is a fixed probability in God's existence (something other than one-in-infinity, or its logical equivalent, zero-in-any-fixed-number), then yes, it is POSSIBLE that such a God exists when presented with the possibility that there are infinite universes in which a God could exist, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's GUARANTEED.
So applause for udsuna for producing an argument that is logically respectable, but not sound.
Except, given that for the universes to be considered separate, they must have disconnected space-time continua. Thus the deity in question would have no control over other universes (let alone create them). Please, please, understand what you're talking about before you open your mouth. You just end up looking like a fool.
Yet that alleged particular being from the human imagination, who creates or created all the universes, cannot actually manifest and correct humanity once and for all, about all their religious questions and disputes. And that's on Earth. Imagine if there are other intelligent beings in the universe, all the other strange beliefs some must have, if they too evolved without the purpose of accurate knowledge discovery. Now imagine in all the universes... That's assuming that they're all honest "truth seekers", leaving aside for a moment all the hypocrites using religious arguments to manipulate and control, or justify unacceptable acts.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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