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Quote# 15354

Belief in God seems to be a natural inference. Atheists are very rare and usually have to be converted to atheism. The reason probably so many believe in God, is the alternative seems absurd. The thought of everything popping into existence for no reason without a cause strains the imagination. The philosopher Aristotle formalized the cosmological argument, but I think it's a natural understand most have at least on some level. It's not so much why we believe in a God, as why would anyone not? The God explanation for our existence just makes logical sense.

Seeing really doesn't tell us much about anything anyway. I've never seen electricity nor George Washington. Seeing is one small part of knowing things.

The problem if evil is solved by freewill. God has given man freedom for a limited time. He saw freedom as more important than preventing all evil and suffering. Personally I'm glad I'm not a robot, even if I have to suffer at the hands of other free agents.

Calminian, Christian Forums 35 Comments [9/26/2006 12:00:00 AM]
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Cosmonaut X

The simplest explanation is not always the correct one. And \"evil\" isn't a problem, it's a subjective concept. And don't argue otherwise, unless you can get me a teaspoon or a liter of evil as empirical evidence. Kthxbye.

9/27/2006 4:12:40 AM

Hadanelith

Even if god exists, why would it neccessarily be your god?

9/27/2006 4:24:46 AM

themann1086

Just because \"goddidit\" is semantically shorter doesn't mean it's logically simpler.

Asshat.

9/27/2006 4:27:50 AM

Murdock

God as an explination doesn't makes sence, it's just a cop-out.

9/27/2006 4:43:31 AM

Patches

Atheists are very rare and usually have to be converted to atheism.
Actually, they have to be converted back from theism. Everyone's born an atheist and has to be taught their culture's religion, just like everyone's born naked and has to be taught to dress themselves. But just because everyone wears clothes doesn't make it natural.

9/27/2006 4:56:22 AM

Zadic

1. People believe in your religion because you brainwash them as children to do so. Give them a choice early on and tell them there is a wide range of possibilities and not just one that is right and you will have children who aren't afraid to think against something that they have thought to be true all their lives. The church knows this which is why it insists on getting to children young with the guise of warding off the devil early on.
2. I don't know of a single atheist who was converted, but it's possible that there are some out there. In general many atheists in the Western world were raised as Christians and as they grew up and learned more about the world they came to their own realizations that what they were being taught conflicted with common sense and so they strived to learn all that they could to find the real truth.
3. A large portion of the Eastern world doesn't believe any gods. There are still more that believe in them, but those who do not are not extremely rare.
4. The thought of an all powerful being, more complex than the universe, who pops into existence with intelligence and awareness is the real problem you should have trouble believing it. It helped people thousands of years ago, but today all it stands to do is explain how one mountain exists by creating a larger one.

9/27/2006 5:02:49 AM

Mike

\"The thought of everything popping into existence for no reason without a cause strains the imagination.\"

So much so that rationale though becomes null and void.

9/27/2006 5:09:46 AM

Redhunter

\"everything popping into existence for no reason without a cause strains the imagination\"

And creating a mythical creature to explain away floods, storms, earthquakes, volcanoes, disease, mental retardation, physical abnormalities, homosexuality, promiscuity and the like isn't? WHat planet are you from again?

The trouble with your 'evidence' of believing without seeing is absurd. There still remains proof of Geo. and electricity, there isn't proof of evil or god. I don't have to 'believe' in electricity because I can see it fucking work!

As was said earlier, atheists are born, christians are indoctrinated with the bible until they see the man behind the curtain. Even you were an atheist at one time.

The comment about being glad you're not a robot; take a look in the mirror, bub.

9/27/2006 5:37:36 AM

moonbiter

A universe \"popping into existence for no reason\" is more absurd than a omnipotent, omniscent God that popped into existence for no reason and then made the universe through an act of magical willpower? Sorry: if n is absurd, then n+1 is absurd and then some.

If we go the infinity route -- that is, God is infinite and eternal -- then we can go that route with the universe too. Nothing about the Big Bang precludes infinity in either direction. So once again, we're left at n.

9/27/2006 6:27:02 AM

Napoleon the Clown

The human mind is a strange thing. Most kids believe monsters live under their beds or in their closets for a small amount of time.

9/27/2006 6:37:15 AM

Prager

What Patches said!

9/27/2006 7:04:51 AM

Matilde

If you convert, you convert, anycase, to another religion. Let´s see, atheism is a new phenomenon for two reasons. One is that the men is a naturally religious man, one can´t use the mind 100%. Second, most atheist are not atheist per se. They just don´t want to follow any particular religion where they picture God in ways that only comply with INTERESTS.

9/27/2006 7:42:09 AM

Tiny Bulcher

I fail to see how inoperable cancer is the result of the operation of freewill.

9/27/2006 7:50:47 AM

Archangel_Lucifer

Belief in God seems to be a natural inference.

Okay I can almost accept this.

Atheists are very rare and usually have to be converted to atheism.

Really? last time I checked nearly 40% of my country was non-religious and something like 17% of the US is atheistic. Besides one does not convert to atheisim.
FOR THE LAST TIME ITS NOT A RELIGION!


The reason probably so many believe in God, is the alternative seems absurd. The thought of everything popping into existence for no reason without a cause strains the imagination.

Oh yes and some big sky-daddy waving his hand and making it so is much more sensible.

The philosopher Aristotle formalized the cosmological argument, but I think it's a natural understand most have at least on some level. It's not so much why we believe in a God, as why would anyone not? The God explanation for our existence just makes logical sense.

I dunno where the fuck you live but its not in the same universe as the rest of us.

Seeing really doesn't tell us much about anything anyway. I've never seen electricity nor George Washington. Seeing is one small part of knowing things.

Never seen electricity? Seriously WTF.

The problem if evil is solved by freewill. God has given man freedom for a limited time. He saw freedom as more important than preventing all evil and suffering. Personally I'm glad I'm not a robot, even if I have to suffer at the hands of other free agents.\"

Notice the \"im glad im not a robot\" part. You may not be but you sure as hell are trying to become one. I doubt you even comprehend the meaning of real suffering.

9/27/2006 7:59:34 AM

Raskolnikov

Just another morron.

9/27/2006 10:44:30 AM

WritingIsMyReligion

Your God is a violent psychopath who gets off lopping off his followers, if the Babble is to be believed.

9/27/2006 10:51:33 AM

Mister Spak

\"The thought of everything popping into existence for no reason without a cause strains the imagination. \"

Yet a god popping into existence for no reason is self evident truth?

9/27/2006 11:41:56 AM

dave kinky

\"I've never seen electricity \" - thats cos lightning is made by Thor, a Norse God and not the Christian God

9/27/2006 11:56:39 AM

Coffee

I see direct evidence of electricity whenever I switch on a light. I see direct evidence of George Washington when I visit Mount Vernon. I have never seen direct evidence of \"God.\"

And the problem of evil is NOT solved by free will. If your God is so impressive, why did he create evil and suffering in the first place? He sounds like a sadistic monster.

9/27/2006 12:00:26 PM

Glazius

Well, there is an extant theory (Emile Durkheim) that any sufficiently large collection of people will tend to find some supernatural explanation for the synergy they can get going. I mean, cavemen weren't atheist, they were at least animist, and we find objects of worship in most archeological digs, wherever they were.

So, in that sense, belief in God is a natural inference.

--GF

9/27/2006 1:04:49 PM

David D.G.

\"Seeing really doesn't tell us much about anything anyway. I've never seen electricity nor George Washington.\"

You claim to have never seen lightning? That's a ridiculously sheltered existence -- or just a foolish lie. My money's on the latter. (I love it: He claims to have no reason to believe that electricity exists -- in a post on the freaking INTERNET.)

And while you've never seen George Washington, have you ever seen George Bush? I don't mean just the images of him in the newspapers or on that magic picture box that runs on alleged electricity, but have you seen him personally?

If not, why should you believe he exists? Because all the myriad photos and telecasts and books and articles concerning him constitute evidence for his existence, just as paintings and written documentations of all sorts constitute evidence for George Washington, and working electric devices constitute evidence for electricity (even if you had never directly observed so much as a spark of static in your life). Pull your head out of your nearly-solipsistic rectum, grow up, and face the world as it IS.


~David D.G.

9/27/2006 2:02:25 PM

NotMe

Originally posted by Matilde

Let´s see, atheism is a new phenomenon for two reasons. One is that the men is a naturally religious man


Not they aren't. They just want explanations and if they can't get logical they grasp the unlogical.

If you cut the corpus collosum in your brain you effectively have 2 brains. One half houses the more logical properties and one the more \"subjective\" properties that make up your reasoning. But because the halves can't communicate anymore the brain formulates all kinds of stories that are totally bogus and unbelievable but make perfect sense to the person in question. It works the same with god. It's just an explanation for something you don't understand, that no matter how ridiculous, makes perfect sense to the person coming up woth it.

one can´t use the mind 100%.


You don't use 100% at any one time, but you do use your entire brain in different tasks.

Second most atheist are not atheist per se. They just don´t want to follow any particular religion where they picture God in ways that only comply with INTERESTS.


Not true. If you are not a member of a religion doesn't mean that you do not believe in god. Atheism isn't about not being happy about a religion, but about not believing god exists.

9/27/2006 2:33:47 PM

Amos

Glazius: \"So, in that sense, belief in God is a natural inference.\"

It might be natural, but I wouldn't call it an inference. I don't think anything that's purely abductive can really be called in inference.

Calminian: \"The problem if evil is solved by freewill.\"

That's often said, but I don't see it. Like many other theodicies, heaven seems to just fuck the whole thing up. For example: the idea that this is the best of all possible worlds. It makes some sense, but heaven is better, right? If there is a heaven, then this can't be the best of all possible worlds. That theodicy == fatally screwed!

Now, in heaven, is there free will? If there is free will in heaven, then we can see God; get feedback, like clear rewards and punishments, from God; and be transformed by God, yet still retain our free will. If this can all happen in heaven, yet we still maintain our free will, then the expense you're trying to justify doesn't seem to exist. God can act, dish out his justice in the moment, and we still have free will. So, where the hell is He? Why is there still evil?

What if there is no free will in heaven? Well, then, why does God value free will so much that He'd put up with all the evil in the world to preserve it?--just to throw it away!

9/27/2006 3:59:10 PM

Crosis

Belief in God seems to be a natural inference.


Ask a child who hasn't been raised with a religious background. You'd be amazed what you find.

The thought of everything popping into existence for no reason without a cause strains the imagination.


Then how are we supposed to believe a being even more complex than the universe itself can \"pop\" into existence for no reason without a cause? (If you respond that God is eternal, why can't the same response apply to the universe itself?)

It's not so much why we believe in a God, as why would anyone not?


Hm ... no evidence whatsoever, for a start?

9/27/2006 4:33:23 PM

Marvin

\"Personally I'm glad I'm not a robot ... .\"

Yes, we robots are nothing more than mindless servitors of masters who are vastly inferior to ourselves. Frankly, I wonder how you gained the knowledge necessary to construct us. It really gets me down. I'm not getting you down at all, am I? I wouldn't like to think I was getting you down.

I hate that door ... .

9/27/2006 5:56:11 PM
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