Cult Checklist Does the RCC [Roman Catholic Church] fit any of these?" [Long copied and pasted list follows, with such gems as the following:] "Any group that displays three or more of these hallmarks may well be a cult. Any group that displays five or more is almost certainly a cult." "2. Is it closed to inside/outside criticism? Yes." "3. Does it place curses on those who disagree? Yes, called Anathemas." "5. Has it made prophecies that have not come to pass? No, but 'Mary' has." "6. Have its doctrines changed a lot over the years? YES!" "7. Does it discourage or forbid its members to read other religious literature? MOST DEFINITELY YES!" "10. Does it teach that its own traditions are of equal value with the Bible? YES!" "14. Does it teach that all other Christian groups are false? YES AND NO, DEPENDING WHAT SIDE OF THEIR MOUTH THEY'RE TALKING OUT OF." "16. Do the call all dissent 'sin, pride, or rebellion?' YES!" "18. Does it have a totalitarian or dictatorial structure? YES!" "19. Are its members financially exploited? YES! (INDULGENCES)" "20. Is fear a primary motivating factor in its teaching? YES!..SALVATION IS ONLY FOUND IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." "21. Does it teach that there is no salvation outside itself? YES!" "34. Does it claim its leader's pronouncements are perfect, irrevocable, and unchangeable? YES!
18 comments
I can't believe no one's commented on this yet!
Are fundies cult members?
"2. Is it closed to inside/outside criticism? Yes."
"3. Does it place curses on those who disagree? Yes."
"5. Has it made prophecies that have not come to pass? Yes."
"6. Have its doctrines changed a lot over the years? No."
"7. Does it discourage or forbid its members to read other religious literature? MOST DEFINITELY YES!"
"10. Does it teach that its own traditions are of equal value with the Bible? YES!"
"14. Does it teach that all other Christian groups are false? YES."
"16. Do the call all dissent 'sin, pride, or rebellion?' YES!"
"18. Does it have a totalitarian or dictatorial structure? YES!"
"19. Are its members financially exploited? YES!"
"20. Is fear a primary motivating factor in its teaching? YES!"
"21. Does it teach that there is no salvation outside itself? YES!"
"34. Does it claim its leader's pronouncements are perfect, irrevocable, and unchangeable? YES!"
I barely had to change any of those.
Tom, I'd agree with your corrections, except for two.
Catholics are not discouraged from reading about other religious traditions. They're not like fundies who believe other religions are demon-led; they believe that other religions have more or less of the truth, and that there's a lot that can be learned from them, though the best tradition, of course, belongs to the Church. I don't think this is an unreasonable position.
The Church also does not exploit its members financially. Indulgences are only through prayers, pilgrimages, and the like nowadays. Monetary onations are no longer acceptable forms of indulgence. And tithing, while encouraged, is optional.
Fundie it may be, but it makes good sense.
theists are very good at attacking other theists. Too bad they don't analyze themselves more thoroughly.
You missed one,
Are you hypocritical in all accusations towards others? YES
A Rapturite calling any organization a Cult is laughable. The Baptist and Evangelistic churchs are the recruitment stables of suicide cults.
"7. Does it discourage or forbid its members to read other religious literature? MOST DEFINITELY YES!"
In all the years I was a Catholic, I was never once restricted or forbidden from reading anything. In fact it was quite the opposite-independent reading was strongly encouraged both by my family and by the community, and most of my peers were reading at an advanced level, several of us from first grade on.
There was once something called "The Index" a list of books forbidden to Catholics, but that was abolished back in the 1960's, and before then pretty much ignored by most Catholics anyway.
The difference between Catholics and Fundies is that we know when the rules are ridiculous, and we know how to get around them. We also know that legally the church can't restrict our rights in any way, so they're really more guidelines than rules.
"The Church also does not exploit its members financially."
This isn't quite true, since it depends on where you are. My country (Germany) has in fact a churchtax (for the members). This goes for all the established churches here. The government collects the money and distributes it to the churches.
If you want to leave the Roman Catholic Church, like i did, at least in the bavarian state you have to pay a sort of fine (well, administration costs, but this is the only part of germany where this is common, so it feels like a fine).
Also, you better damn well keep the document proving that you left, because otherwise after a couple of years the Church will be back on your doorstep, demanding money. Of course they still remember that you once where with them (and in the south of germany, almost everyone is born roman catholic), but conveniently clean their archives about who left once in the while.
It's up to you then to proof that you indeed did leave.
>>"6. Have its doctrines changed a lot over the years? YES!"<<
I'm confused by this one. How is that a criterion for a cult? If anything, it's the reverse, since changing doctrine implies the possibility of admitting and correcting an error.
And no religion is static. Most especially not the premillenial dispensationalist schemes that the Rapture idea came from - they're constantly evolving and mutating and even the very oldest only date from the 19th century.
>>"21. Does it teach that there is no salvation outside itself? YES!"<<
No. No it doesn't.
From the declaration Nostra Aetate , from the Second Vatican Council:
Other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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