McCulloch

Further in the thread:
Mark 10:6: [Jesus said,] But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

I'll bite.
You'll note that this verse implies that man and woman had been around since the BEGINNING OF CREATION...yet they were the last things to be created.
So either this is a mistranslation or Jesus doesn't know the story very well....I'm obviously leaning to the former.
And our hero responds with:
Lean on your own mistranslation --- try BEGINNING OF THE CREATION, instead.

That really clears it up!

Then: You want to discuss the Sun, Pete? It was created after the Earth.

Later: My favorite example is Eve. Here's a girl with probably a 200+ IQ. Put her in a university today, and she would be teaching the professors within a year. I'm sure she'd be able to diagram even complex molecules with little or no problem, or discuss quantum physics as if she were reading a primer; yet when the Word of God consisted of only one commandment (not ten like we have today) - she misquotes it!

Where does he come up with this stuff?

11/5/2006 3:48:07 AM

David D.G.

\"There Go The Last Shreds Of Science\" Award.


~David D.G.

11/5/2006 5:52:01 AM

[url=http://bentmywookie.blogspot.com/]Jacob[/url]

Compelling evidence you have there. Now all you need to do is verify everything in the Bible.

11/5/2006 6:32:28 AM

Redhunter

And I can use the instruction manual for my popcorn popper to prove to you that it is the BEST popcorn popper I will ever buy.
WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

11/5/2006 10:48:23 AM

John

If there was no death prior to the fall, then why does the Bible say:

Gen. 3:22 \"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

If there was no death, why should God worry about Adam eating from the Tree of Life and living forever? Why did the \"Tree of Life\" even exist if everything was immortal anyway? I think AV1611VET's theory (and Paul's if it comes to that) needs some work.

11/5/2006 5:08:26 PM

Brain_In_A_Jar

\"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.\"

Take a good, long look at a human body after 50 odd years of normal use. Consider the condition it's in, and by implication the original quality of workmanship. \"Very good\" isn't the way I'd put it, in fact, I'd call it a bloody shoddy friday afternoon job! (OK, saturday afternoon job, for all you literalists!)

11/5/2006 5:43:54 PM

Brain_In_A_Jar

\"Gen. 3:22 \"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:\"

\"one of us\"?? Am I missing something here? Who's \"us\"?

11/5/2006 5:45:21 PM

[url=http://www.hubforums.com]DCoke[/url]

You say reason. I do not think you know what that is.

11/6/2006 3:28:00 AM

Allie

One reason against evolution:

1. God said so.

11/15/2006 10:29:53 PM

HairlessMonkeyDK

\"4 Reasons against Evolution

1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
*Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.

Yes... but using the bible to calculate time is like using snowflakes to build a bonfire, you imbecile!


2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
*Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Your brain has a great big sign stating \"Room For Improvement\"... Or maybe \"Vacant Lot\".


3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
*Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Uhhh, didn't original sin apply strictly to mankind? So why did other animals have to snuff it after the fall?


4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
*Mark 10:6 - But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.\"

Well, Jesus was wrong... what's your point?.

11/15/2006 11:11:37 PM

Crosis



Evidence, please. And \"teh Bible says so and it's the word of God because it says it is\" does not count.

11/16/2006 12:00:37 AM

Allie

Crosis:

Joke:
1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.

11/22/2006 8:46:43 PM

SBeloved

\"Gen. 3:22 \"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:\"

\"one of us\"?? Am I missing something here? Who's \"us\"?

You have a point there! =o Was gawd hanging around with his buddy satan at the time or something?...

And with #3: Does this mean that Adam and Eve were originally vegetarian? Then why do the religious love to try and tell me \"Gawd put animals here for us to eat\" ? Clearly Adam and Eve didn't kill anything. If they are to be a model of how humans should be, there should be a lot less people going to mcdonalds in this country....

11/23/2006 6:12:43 AM

Tina S

Aside from all the other problems, re:

2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT

How do these people explain, say, pedigree dog breeding? I get that evolution happens too slowly for the fundies to notice, but you can breed a new type of dog, cat, rabbit, flower etc within a decade.

Labradoodles, for instance, were created about 40 years ago. Plenty of people alive today can remember a time when there were no labradoodles. Would AV1611VET argue that the Garden of Eden was full of happy, gambolling labradoodles?

11/27/2006 10:34:53 AM

Niali

1. Using the Bible to calculate time is a dumb idea. Take the seven \"days\" of Earth's creation. The original Hebrew word that we changed to \"day\" was yom. This word can refer to any finite expanse of time, whether the actual duration is known or not. As long as you're not talking about forever (or never), yom applies. This means that the seven stages in which God created the Earth could have been 30 seconds, or a billion years.

2. This argument is disqualified for two reasons:
A. The evidence presented doesn't relate to, let alone support, the argument.
B. The evidence presented has suffered a chilling amount of paraphrasing in an attempt to shoehorn it into a specific purpose.

3. Again, disqualified for two reasons.
A. The evidence presented doesn't support the argument. The Bible talks frequently of Death, sometimes as a personification and sometimes just as an abstract force. In all cases, the discussion at hand is spiritual. Death never refers to animals in the Bible. Their deaths do not appear to be relevant to the Bible's authors, which isn't surprising since the Bible's authors didn't believe that animals had souls or afterlives.

B. It's irrelevant, again for two reasons. First, the time interval between the fall and present day is mathematically uncertain for the same reasons that translation issues complicate the Creation timeline. Second, evolution doesn't require things to die anyway. It just requires variations in successful reproduction. Normally death works pretty well for that, but differences in availability of food and space would suffice.

4. Jesus wouldn't have discussed God's specific methods for creating the Earth. If God used evolution to gradually mold organisms over time, Jesus wouldn't have gone into detail about it. Why should he? His audience wouldn't have understood him anyway.

Incidentally, the passage you wanted was Genesis 1:27. The passage in Mark 10:6 is out of context here; it's part of a discussion wherein the Pharisees are testing Jesus by asking him about Moses permitting divorce. Don't take Bible passages out of context; just because it's separated into verses, doesn't mean it's safe to interpret each verse as if it were a whole and independent idea. The Bible is a tool, and like any powerful tool, it'll hurt you if you misuse it.

11/30/2006 6:01:28 PM

jrm

has anyone else noticed the bible is under the FICTION section in libraries?

1/17/2007 12:53:29 AM

Beccs

Quoting that stupid book doesn't make it so.

1/18/2007 1:10:32 AM

David D.G.

jrm: I have worked in several libraries, and I have never seen the Bible situated in any section but that set aside for works pertaining to religious beliefs -- ALL religious beliefs, regardless of relative merits of their claims of veracity.


~David D.G.

1/18/2007 1:57:03 AM

hahah

ok, so, why do these fundies always think that the bible was written by god and not just a bunch of dudes. why are these dudes correct and scientists who study the earth and space not? uh, what?

1/25/2007 2:43:27 AM

music man

\"Using the Bible to calculate time\"

ROFL!!!

I guess I'll get rid of all my clocks, don't need them anymore :)

1/26/2007 3:26:46 PM

jo_27e

try using logic this time

3/4/2007 9:04:41 AM

Maronan



29 Examples of Evolution

I win.



Using reality, however, gives us a figure of about 1 billion years since life first appeared. That's more than enough time.



1. Your Babble is bullshit.
2. If that verse were true, then there would be no need for Jesus. Why does he need to die if everything is already the best that can be? Your bibble just contradicted itself.
3. Evolution is not about \"improvement.\" An organism best adapted to its environment will leave more offspring than those less well adapted and its traits will become more common. Mutations produce many small random changes (you have about 30), natural selection will make some more common, and these repeated small changes eventually add up to big changes. At no point, however, will any species be \"higher\" or \"lower\" than another; evolution just doesn't work that way.



Is the Bible a peer-reviewed scientific journal? I didn't think so.

Anyway, animals (people included) most certainly did die before the Fall. Death is a fact of life; unless you're an eternal (not counting, for example, an individual dæmen), you will die. Long before the gods were manufactued, even before the Order of Kysine was officially chartered, people died. The Kysines trying to offset the Fall died! Eventually, the gods themselves died, except for the Lilayeneh goddess who was hidden away in storage. Of course, the wars between powerful empires using gods as weapons did lead to the deaths of many people and the destruction of half the galaxy (known as the Fall), but that certainly wasn't the first time people died; hundreds of the Baron Makir's men died defending their country against the expanding Haman empire, thousands of Haman soldiers were killed by Twinnery guerillas before they retreated, millions of people were killed in the Seberan empire's brutal expansion, the Lilayeneh were killed by the Evka, the khani killed the laki within the Etivken empire itself, and the native people of Kassihaagen were systematically killed by the Ube invaders long before the Haman empire was first created. And, of course, even people who weren't murdered died eventually.

Oh, right, the citation. It's from Appendix B, Order of Lilayeneh, the book I'm writing. It's just as accurate and as valid as yours.



Duh! Jesus died centuries before Darwin was born! Of course he didn't know about evolution! Back then, plenty of people didn't even know the Earth was round!

Of course, that's assuming Jesus ever existed; there's some evidence to the contrary.

5/30/2007 10:22:12 PM

Beccs

Using backward thinking quotes from an outdated book doesn't make it so.

5/30/2007 11:25:51 PM

anti-nonsense

and that's why science does not presuppose that the Bible is literally true.

5/30/2007 11:27:57 PM

Mister Blister

That explains the 4.6 billion year old rocks, allright.

5/30/2007 11:44:38 PM