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Site/Off-Topic Discussion Thread 3
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If you want to do what the Bible says, then you will not drink anything with alcohol in it (including fermented wine).
[3/31/2007 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
3/31/2007 8:44:02 PM
Never Read the Bible Award?
3/31/2007 10:44:42 PM
Water to Wine award.
3/31/2007 10:46:03 PM
I've never read the bible (aside from a couple of passages that were in chick tracts and elsewhere), and even I know that wine was totally approved by Jesus. Hell, I think it's supposed to be sacred or something, in much the way holy water is supposed to be.
3/31/2007 10:53:33 PM
Randy, you make me want to START drinking.
3/31/2007 10:57:37 PM
3/31/2007 11:03:37 PM
So Jesus turned water into grape juice?
3/31/2007 11:18:14 PM
He goes on about somethign called \"new wine\", being grape juice, as opposed to \"old wine\", which has alcohol. He just doesn't get that \"old wine\" has had longer to ferment and that \"new wine\" is everything younger than a certain age. Even the bible has examples of \"new wine\" containing alcohol and it was cited in the thread IIRC, but since scripture can't contradict scripture according to them they must be interpreting it wrong.
3/31/2007 11:23:08 PM
Don't forget shellfish, pork, milk with meat, and only eating kosher meat.
Come on Randy, in for a penny, in for a pound! This isn't the Chinese food buffet!
3/31/2007 11:28:02 PM
Go ahead, Randy, show us where the Bible says you shouldn't drink wine.
3/31/2007 11:30:22 PM
That's a common belief among anti-alcohol Christians (most, but not all, of whom are fundies). It's actually complete nonsense as grape juice isn't shelf-stable without some heavy processing, but that doesn't keep the Temperance crowd from trying to come up with ways they <i>might</i> have done it.
Most nonbiased Biblical scholarship states that Biblical wine is wine, with alcohol and all. In fact, I believe it's actually a largely North American conceit, as I've heard the few fundies there are in Europe generally have no problem at all with wine or beer.
Besides which, the Jews, who created the whole bread-and-wine thing, would find the whole idea ludicrous on its face...
3/31/2007 11:32:23 PM
Well, maybe Randy got the wrong book. After all, Muslims aren't allowed to drink alcohol...
3/31/2007 11:36:00 PM
While the bible certainly seems to contain some cautionary tales about drunkenness, it doesn't forbid alcohol altogether.
You know, looking back over Bro. Randy's recent posts, I'm beginning to wonder whether some joker replaced his bible with an English copy of the Qur'an and he hasn't noticed yet. I seem to recall Islam is a lot closer to his stances on stuff like alcohol and modesty than the bible is.
EDIT: Damn, thursday, beaten to the punch again.
3/31/2007 11:37:45 PM
3/31/2007 11:53:35 PM
Jesus: And now for my next trick I'm going to turn water into....
3/31/2007 11:59:04 PM
Jesus went to hell then?
Guess I'll be joining him! *pours a glass of riesling*
4/1/2007 12:35:05 AM
\"Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now.\"
Clearly the wine Jesus made was good wine, not grape juice. The passage refers to the common practice of serving good wine while the party is still fully sober, then switching to a cheaper wine after they've had a few and their judgment is not as good. The passage wouldn't make much sense if grape juice were being served.
Also, without refrigeration, grape juice turns to alcoholic wine by itself in a few days. The alcohol is a preservative. No one could have kept non-alcoholic grape juice back in those days; nor would they try.
As usual with the Bible, it's not hard to find passages that can be interpreted to support either view with regard to alcohol. Contrary to their claim that they are guided by the Bible, fundies decide what they want to do first, then find Biblical quotes to support it.
4/1/2007 12:43:49 AM
Um, I'm pretty sure there was nothing AGAINST wine in the bible. So, Your problem is?....
4/1/2007 1:30:13 AM
Well, Randy has this way of twisting scripture to make out the wine that Jesus made and drank at the Last Supper to actually be grape juice. *rolls eyes*
4/1/2007 2:02:12 AM
.. And Lemme guess: Jesus drank Grape Juice, not wine?
4/1/2007 2:20:04 AM
::headdesk:: YOU FAIL!
4/1/2007 2:32:50 AM
Noah disagrees. Noah wants to party.
4/1/2007 2:49:29 AM
Yeah, stupid sinning Jesus, turning water into wine for the people to drink.
4/1/2007 2:50:39 AM
and why does the bible tell you to drink wine \"for it is the blood of christ\" when it contains alachol? jesus must've had a ridiculously high BAC all the time
4/1/2007 3:08:19 AM
Except for the fact that Jesus did it all the time, and according to the Bible, Jesus kept the Law perfectly. Therefore drinking wine is well withing the Law.
Just another example of Bro. Randy making shit up to force the Bible to fit his narrow view.
He will likely go on to say that back then, wine was so diluted and weak as to be basically grape juuice. Well, Randy, that's a load of crap. Wine at the time was potent even by today's standards, and while they did, in fact, dilute it (frequently as much as half wine/half water), it would still have had a bit of a kick to it.
And to put the final nail in the coffin of your idiocy, even if the wine was so weak as to be effectively harmless...
it was still fermented, and therefore still qualifies as \"alcoholic.\"
4/1/2007 4:36:29 AM