[On foundations and separation of church and state]
If you are so blind as to so staunchly believe that our great nation was not founded upon a righteous belief in God Almighty and his word by godly men and women, then I am too weak to open those blind eyes.
40 comments
From said treaty...
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
If you're too stupid to understand that "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" means that the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, then I am too weak to beat it into your thick skull.
-pb
"...to so staunchly believe..."
Is there anyone else here that just HATES a split infinitive?
"To boldly go where no man has gone before..."
I believe that the founding fathers, at least some majority of them, were wise and high-minded enough to make an attempt to create a place where people would be free to live as they pleased and worship who, what and as they pleased, or nothing, provided their activities didn't harm those around them.
It was a bold attempt. The reality is that it sometimes falls short if we don't watchgit, and that one of the reasons that it falls short is because of people much like yourself.
I find it very ironic, that many old European countries ostensibly founded (also) as religious entities originally, now are far more secular in their culture and politics than the US which was ostensibly founded as a non-religious nation back in the day.
Too weak to open your brain also... not to mention a history textbook.
Oh and also... "Treaty of Tripoli, Bitch!" (I know its been said before, but maybe if it gets said often enough it might get thru their thick skull)
I think the rest of it has been covered.
So, "If you are so blind as to... believe that our... nation was not founded... by... men and women...."
Check a history book. You will find the the United States was not founded in any way, shape, or form by "men and women". Men, yes. Godly men? Perhaps a few. Women? The founding fathers knew that women belonged properly in the home raising children and cooking for their husbands, just like the fundies like to claim they should be.
You never hear the phrase "founding fathers and mothers", now do you? It's always the "founding fathers". The only part you got right was that the country was, in fact, founded.
History. Try learning a bit before you talk about it.
He's not blind. There is a treaty of Tripoli, a constitution and letters which demonstrate that the Founding fathers were deist, agnostic, Roman Catholics and Christians. And some Francmasons.
I don't think I can say anymore than what's already been made but...
Caveman: Next time, you might want to do a little more research.
Yep, sounds like someone is too weak to open his blind eyes, MercuryBird. READ THE DAMN CONSTITUTION BEFORE YOU MAKE UP SHIT ABOUT IT FUNDIES. You might also try reading actual quotes by say Jefferson, Monroe, Madison, Paine, Franklin, and Washington about religion. Made-up bullshit attributed to them by Barton in his lying carbuncle on the ass of American history "Myth Of Separation" doesn't count.
Speaking of blindness, I seem to recall that someone once said something about specks, beams, and eyes. It seems to apply here.
Repeating a lie millions of times does not magically turn it into a truth. And there is never any proof to support this lie, I notice.
Read "Common Sense" by Paine. (arguably, this is the inspiration for the American Revolution)
Read the "Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom" by Jefferson. (the model for the Federal policy on religion)
Now, Murkybird, read your bible and specify, in precise detail, where any scriptural precedent exists for the Bill of Rights.
Something tells me you can't.
You can start kissing my ass at your convenience.
The question of whether the founders were personally "godly" is irrelevant. They clearly understood that people can have widely differing opinions about what "godly" is. It's not the government's place to get involved in enforcing one view or another.
In 1802, Baptists in Connecticut found themselves discriminated against by Congregationalists and wanted assurances from then-President Jefferson that ... "religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals -- that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions -- that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbors ...". Jefferson gave them the assurance they wanted in the famous "Danbury Baptist" letter, citing the First Amendment and using the well-known phrase "separation of church and state"
It's funny that today some of the biggest opponents of separation are loony-fringe religious minorities that would be the first to suffer if we had an established religion. Is MercuryBird stupid enough to think that if religion were enforced by the government it would be his fundie brand of religion?
After Falwell's insistence on allowing religious fliers in school backpacks backfired and resulted in pagans using the privilege, Jefferson Park (VA) Baptist Church Pastor Jeff Riddle said "Conservative Christians who want to 'put prayer back in school' had better realize that it might not always be a Christian who is leading the prayers."
And not smart enough to know history apparently. Treaty of Tripoli and First Amendment ensure us being secular. Unless the translation to what you said would be
If you are so blind as to so staunchly believe that our great nation was not founded upon a righteous belief in God Almighty and his word by godly men and women, then I am too stupid to undo anything you've read or learned
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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