The first schools, and universities, were started with the idea of proselytizing Christianity, and training missionaries.
From the Mayflower Compact forward all was based on Christianity.
Laws against stealing, murder, adultry, perjury, all had their basis in Christianity. Laws protecting private property, gun rights, privacy, and religious freedom, had their basis in Christianity.
Now people such as yourself find Christianity anathema to your beliefs.
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Laws against stealing, murder, adultry, and perjury appear in non-Christian as well as Christian societies.
As far as religious freedom having its basis in Christianity: Bwhahahahahaahahahahaahaha!!!!!
"Laws against stealing, murder, adultry, perjury, all had their basis in Christianity."
Code of Hammurabi, dumbass.
"Laws protecting private property, gun rights, privacy, and religious freedom, had their basis in Christianity."
The constitution was written to keep christianity out of the government. You fail.
World history ends with first-century occupied Palestine.
American history begins with fundies who were not welcome anywhere in Europe.
"Selective History" tends to suppress reality, and those who engage in it, are not to be trusted.
IOW, fail.
"Laws against stealing, murder, adultry, perjury, all had their basis in Christianity."
Wrong. The code of Hammurabi predates your bible.
"Laws protecting private property, gun rights, privacy, and religious freedom, had their basis in Christianity."
None of those things are in the bible at all except private property, and Rome had a well developed property law before Christianity came along.
Nope, they were not "proselitising", because, if you were not a Christian BEFORE you entered, you could not apply. Learn the meaning of the words before using them. And, by the way, Bologna existed in the tweflth century already, like 400 centuries at least, before the Mayflower. Concerning the laws, man, EVERY CIVILISATION HAS A LAW AGAINST THOSE CRIMES(except adultery, which is not a crime anymore). And laws concerning property, privacy and religious freedom were NOT CONTEMPLATED IN THE MAYFLOWER COLONY(The scarlett letter rings you a bell?). And the right to own guns is OPPOSITE to Christianity and almost exclusive to USA because it was a country which sprang from a revolution.
stealing, murder, adultery, and perjury are considered wrong in all societies. that's not unique to christianity. early christians were also not into private property or gun rights. they were non-violent and believed in sharing among themselves so that everyone would be cared for. you can still see that in the mennonite, and amish communities today.
I've been looking through this bible, and I'm not finding a single verse that looks anything like a law regarding privacy, religious freedom, or gun rights.
Something tells me Old_Trapper is just pulling arguments out of his ass.
Laws against stealing, murder and perjury, and laws protecting private property all have existed in every civilization, including the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians and Chinese, none of whom were Christian. There is no law against adultery. The only effect Christianity had on religious freedom was negative: to show people what a lousy idea it is when religion sticks its nose into the law. And gun rights? WTF?
Christianity doesn't own common morals and common sense!
Even in old egypt people had laws against murder and theft and such.
Not everybody needs heavenly motivation to do the right thing! Some of us just do because they are decent people!
Social contract.
When early (stone age) humans realized that working as a group was more efficient than doing everything solo, the necessity for social contract, and the language to express it, arose. This is a very basic human thing, which may be regarded as instinctual.
Hammurabi codified the concept in terms that applied to all conceivable (at the time) misdeeds. This is the earliest known manifestation of a set of "laws". It helped enormously that those laws were chiseled in stone. Hammurabi's stele specified penalties for infractions, thus (perhaps) originating the concept of crime and punishment, as opposed to simple revenge.
Judaism came later. They didn't reinvent the Cosmos, but appropriated whatever law, and myth, that worked within their context.
Jesus was probably quite aware of the Socratic school of thought, as he interpreted the social contract concept in a simple and populist way. (Too bad his total break from Judaism was thwarted.)
To put it quite simply, Old_Trapper, if you seriously believe the bible is the Alpha and Omega, you are mistaken. Get an education.
How very ironic - "The Love Song" by Marilyn Manson came up on my set-on-shuffle media player just as I started reading this.
"Do you love your guns, God, and government?"
I was a mere wisp of a lad at the time, but I remember the blessed Christian ambience of 17th Century America. The Puritans, for example, came here to escape persecution, and promptly established a thoroughgoing and wholly despicable religious despotism. John Adams opined that, were they not restrained by legal measures, Puritans would "whip and crop, and pillory and roast."
We were founded as a secular nation, Spanky. (Thank God, huh?) Get with the program.
The first schools, and universities, were started with the idea of proselytizing Christianity, and training missionaries.
the greeks disagree.
my name sake spent a while in the courts B.C, and if you ever read Stoic or Epicurean philosophy, Seneca or the likes?
I believe the persons on the Mayflower were from a religious fanatic fundamentalist cult, who were expelled from England since they were heretics, definitely not Christian, am I mistaken ?
Mayflower ... compact?
Also you're an idiot.
How did you get to be old if you are this stupid? Did you miss all your history courses? I really get tired of fundies MAKING UP history to fit their agenda. My fifth-grader could tell you that laws against stealing, murder, and perjury, predate Christianity by a couple of thousand years.
Actually, the first thing resembling a university was Plato's Akadhimi, which was created, what, three and a half, four centuries BCE? At that point Alexander (a generation or two younger than Plato, and influenced by Plato's hubristic pupil Aristotle) had yet to launch his conquests and the following wave of Hellenization, and the Jews were a Persian province that probably had yet to meet any Greeks that hadn't assimilated into Canaanite culture a millennium before. (Hell, some people think some of them became Israelites -- the tribe of Dan, thought to be cognate with the Homeric "Danaans". Roll that one up and smoke it.)
Actually, the first universities were founded not to promote Christianity, but to preserve knowledge and keep it within the church's control.
Maybe in Europe. But there were universities in China, India and Persia several centuries before Christ.
"The first schools, and universities, were started with the idea of proselytizing Christianity, and training missionaries."
Tell that to a Confucian scholar.
39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.
As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."
G.Th.
Gun rights?
1. And the Lord said unto Moses: Take thee thy Smith and Wesson 645 44 magnum with the six inch barrel and stainless finish and smite thine enemies mightily in thy mercy.
2. Usest thou the semi jacketed hollow point ammo in order that the signs of thy wrath be manifest.
3. And lo, Moses approached the host of his enemies who were gathered in one place as the sheep upon the hillside.
4. The grace of the lord shined upon Moses, who hefted his Vulcan electric minigun to his hip and unleashed the wrath of the righteous upon the host of the enemy.
5. And did the host of the enemy become manifestly smited by the rain of 5.56mm frangible terror.
6. The lord did look down upon the slaughter, the dismemberment and the disembowelling and said to his servant Moses.
7. I am well pleased in thee. Go get the Pussy Wagon and we shall hit town in search of some righteous pussy.
Yeah, because Christianity is the only religion on earth, and it was the first...
oh, and there were guns in the time of Jesus. How else did the Christians fight the Romans?
No. Laws against stealing, murder, adultery, purgery, etc. all had their basis in common human decency. Laws protecting private property, gun rights, privacy, and religious freedom all had their basis in respect and decency again. Except gun rights. Gun rights are now an unfortunate necessity because they've already been invented and you can never uninvent them. If you ban them, they will still be out there, but on the black market, where only people who would use them for harm would be getting them. So, that just has origins in leveling the playing field. And the first schools and universities were founded before Christianity even existed. Get off your horse.
Actually, religious freedom, as in "hold whatever beliefs you like as long as you don't break the law", is very unchristian.
Try Rome.
Code of Ur-Nammu, bitch.
300 years older than the Code of Hammurabi.
2100 years older than Christianity.
2400 years older than the Bible.
And it covers all but two of those points (no laws about gun rights (obviously) or religious freedom).
Sir, you fail legal history forever. Now get the hell out of my internet.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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