GOOD MORNING CLASS: Today I issue a bold challenge to all atheists - a challenge that not even the most educated and meticulous thinkers of them will be able to satisfactorily answer in any way. The only thing they will be able to do in effort to effectually rebutt this challenge is to babble unintelligently.
The challenge has to do with the issue of human death. The sentence of death (which comes from God as a result of mankind having committed high treason against God's kingdom in the first man Adam) is one that every person of mankind cannot escape as long as mankind exists. (The actual experience of death is one that few humans will escape). Every atheist BELIEVE and even KNOW that every person of mankind, must die. However, even though they believe and know this fact, not one of them can supply SCIENTIFIC PROOF to that effect. Their belief is not based on any type of SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
This is so because no scientific proof actually exists to that effect. If there was scientific proof, it would also point to a specific time, date and type of death. But despite the fact that their death is inevitable, there is no so-called "scientific proof" to that effect. The only real proof is found only in the unadulterated teachings of Holy Writ - the Bible. Duly noting that death has prevailed over all mankind throughout their history is not proof that all will be overtaken by death in the future. It is only proof that death has prevailed thusfar, (since there will be certain people who will not be overtaken by death in the future).
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Science frequently makes use of inductive evidence. Our ideas that the sun rises in the east on Earth, that the speed of a photon in a vacuum is constant, that inertial mass and gravitational mass are always the same, are all accepted only on the basis of inductive evidence. It seems to work. Occasionally it doesn't. When that happens we try to induce a new claim that will work. So science has very good evidence for death, and some rough idea of when (some time before 150 years). As to why, the best answer that can be given is entropy. But it's open to the possibility of death not being mandatory.
OMG...the stupid is burning me like I'm a twig. >_<
Ok, we have lots of these awesome things called "organs" that keep us alive and healthy. But sometimes if something bad happens, and organ won't function right or will shut down. Soon, the other organs will shut down too due to stress. All those things keeping you healthy and alive not working eventually kills you.
Robbie, before you say more nonsenses, would you care to explain how animals, who never sin, die without destroying the little sanity that remains in theology?
Was there actually a question or a challenge in there somewhere?
So are you saying that everything does die? Or that everything doesn't die? Your argument flip-flops more than the footwear of the same name.
Every atheist BELIEVE and even KNOW that every person of mankind, must die. However, even though they believe and know this fact, not one of them can supply SCIENTIFIC PROOF to that effect.
Heat death, anyone? Even if it doesn't happen, it's pretty clear that eventually the universe will be extremely inhospitable to humans as they currently are. So either everyone's going to be dead at some point or we'll have to, well, evolve somehow. Take your pick.
1. Science could not say anything about date and time, we barely have the computing power to predict global weather phenomenan.
2. You cannot state that a lack of proof constitutes a proof of lack.
3. I cannot say I know what specifically leads to death, though I can say that as it does speed up evolution by removing older generations from the gene pool, natural selection would almost certainly favor mortality.
@cyborgtroy: One of the things that predisposes an organism to death are the telomers. Telomers are useless strings of junk DNA that protects the vital DNA from damage. As DNA continues to replicate the telomers shorten. Eventually there will be no telomers left and the body will begin to brake down, this is known as "aging" as the vital DNA becomes damaged. That's how things die of old age. Other ways anything can is just when it's body is so heavily damaged that it can no longer carry on it's functions or from diseases.
Science knows exactly how and why things die, so Robert Lee's post is complete gobbledeegook. Which is probably why so many atheists are at a loss for words when presented with it, which then leads Mr. Lee to believe he's won.
As for evolution you are exactly correct. Nature would never allow for an immortal organism capable of reporduction simply because without death to keep their numbers at a constant rate, they would chock out everything else. The fact that the God of the Bible originally made humans immortal just shows a complete lack of foresight on his part.
So, what're these "unproven" dead people really doing? Sleeping? A lot? And rotting? Did it ever sink into that harder-than-diamond skull of yours that people will sputter and babble at this because the absurdity in that assertion has just killed off a good portion of their brain cells?
God damn, you're stupid. For the good of the human race:
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1. Science considers that every living human being will eventually die a fact.
2. In science a fact is an observation "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent", to use Stephen J. Gould's words.
3. Every human being born more than a century-and-a-half ago is dead or of unknown condition. None has been shown to still be alive.
4. In the absence of a well-attested to exceptions, there is overwhelming evidence that death is a natural and inevitable consequence of life, in humans at least.
5. Science does not preclude a change in circumstances altering the facts. Facts change all the time; for example, before December 17th, 1903 it was a fact that no-one had made a successful controlled, powered and sustained heavier-than-air human flight, the next day it wasn't.
"Every atheist BELIEVE and even KNOW that every person of mankind, must die. However, even though they believe and know this fact, not one of them can supply SCIENTIFIC PROOF to that effect. "
Please look up the words SCIENTIFIC PROOF in the dictionary BEFORE you POST. That way you will not make yourself look so STUPID.
No answer from the most educated and meticulous thinkers among the atheists would be satisfactory for Robert T Lee. But that doesn't mean that we don't know beyond doubt, based on scientific evidence, that people die, just that Robert T Lee has a ridiculous idea of what constitutes scientific evidence.
@Osiris #384347 and @David B. #384424:
Thank you for your wonderful posts.
Osirus - That is the best simple explanation of telemors that I have seen.
David B. - Stephen J. Gould is my favorite author. Thanks for unearthing a quote that I was unfamiliar with.
I'd say a typical 6-year old could outwit this goober.
If you are physically born of woman, you will physically die. Mythical precedent for anything else is purely speculative.
Whether the personality survives physical death, is something the individual will discover after they die.
Omg, so much fail in one place.... How will I cope?
Mr. Lee, you are moron. Please go away and die. M'kay?
Wait a second, if we do find a "cure for death" via biotech before your precious "rapture", then it will completely disprove the biblical claim that since death comes from sin it will be with us until the end of the world.
Is death in the past but not in the future a problem for science? no.
Is it a problem for funides? hell, yeah, but not just because it contradicts your Word (you ignore plenty of things that contradict your Word already), but because it will completely disrupt the demand-supply chain for spiritual conmen selling etrnal life after death. Why give your money to the churcch for some hypothetical immortality when you can give money to a doctor and, say, get your telomeres reset, and genetic errors fixed?
Ok, so this guy argues that evolution is the religion of death yet here he says that Christianity is the religion of death. I really wish this guy would choose one and stick with it.
Well... I guess this way it's a bit funnier.
Oooooookaaaaaaaay, this guy has now officially pulled into the lead in the "Most Insane Fundie of 2007" Award competition. Carico, supersport, dad, and assorted other nutjobs will have to work hard to beat this.
Seriously, if this guy isn't just completely barking mad, he must be one of the most devoted poes imaginable. Either way, I can hardly see any point to quoting him further. The mission here is to mock fundamentalism, not actual mental illness.
Prove?
No.
Provide a damn good amount of evidence on it?
Yes.
But a brain-dead monkey can do that.
...Then again, you DO think Jesus rose from the dead....
No scientific proof of death? WTF???
I've held many animals while they die. I've watched people die, I've been to open casket funerals where the body was there.
Specific time, date and type of death is listed on the death certificate.
This is so fucking stupid it hurts.
Insande babblings? How about what the hell are you talking about? Sure, we can't scientifically prove that everyone dies, but there is more than enough evidence to support that claim.
Good morning, sir. On behalf of humanity, I must respectfully ask you to GTFO and take your massive truck of fail with you.
{blinks}
There's a different strand you haven't quite picked up on, that worries me about Lee's reasoning...
"The sentence of death (which comes from God as a result of mankind having committed high treason against God's kingdom in the first man Adam)"
Humanity turned upon God IN Adam? Is he trying to say that all human souls were collectively contained within Adam, somehow? (I'll trust he's excepting Jesus) Never mind it should be "in the first man and woman", since they both partook of the Tree of Moral Knowledge...
{sigh} Maybe this is taking the "reproducing after its kind" concept too far (in this case, because Adam betrayed God, so too will all humans, because they are of Adam's kind)...
Living in an entropic universe, the only way that death could not be a fact is if the laws of thermodynamics were false.
Given how that gets trotted out to 'refute' evolution, fundies should understand it too.
this isn't the same as a white swan/black swan issue. On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for anything drops to zero.
The only real proof is found only in the unadulterated teachings of Holy Writ - the Bible. Duly noting that the bible has prevailed over all christians throughout their history is not proof that all will be overtaken by the bible in the future. It is only proof that the bible has prevailed thusfar.
Fixed to reveal stupidity.
//a challenge that not even the most educated and meticulous thinkers of them will be able to satisfactorily answer in any way//
Well no. Of course not. It's hard to answer your questions in a satisfactory way when every time I open my mouth you plug your ears and go LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
The worst argument for God, ever. He must exist because everyone dies?
Fuck, these cretins stoop lower and lower, while all the time thinking(sic) that they have come up with some brilliant insight.
Doesn't it hurt to be that stupid?
There's barely any "proof" for anything.
GOOD MORNING CLASS:
I can't help but adore this part, and the too-silly-even-for-the-average-Christian babble that follows, makes it just that much more hilarious. Thank you Mr. Lee; I certainly appreciate the amusement, please don't stop. We do need a Homer Simpson in real life.
The fact that all people will die is proof for a loving god. OK.
The sentence of death (which comes from God as a result of mankind having committed high treason against God's kingdom in the first man Adam) is one that every person of mankind cannot escape as long as mankind exists.
And this is why death is an exclusivly human affair. No animal ever died.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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