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Seriously. What is it with certain Christians being obsessed with the idea that Jesus made non-alcoholic wine? They all seem to want to prove that alcohol is anti-Christian somehow, and it's just bizarre. There are several stories of "godly" people getting drunk in the Bible, get over it.
12/27/2007 8:17:13 AM
Ahh, the old, non alcoholic wine. Since Jesus was accused of being a drunkard - it was the real thing.
12/27/2007 8:19:51 AM
Not much of a miracle then if he just created grape juice. Maybe Jesus was drunk and thought it was a children's party. Maybe he thought all the other guests were so intoxicated that they'd think grape juice was the "best wine they ever tasted."
Either way, you characterize Jesus as either a charlatan, a fraud, or an idiot. Take your pick.
12/27/2007 8:20:42 AM
I just read the post, and to his credit, he does state if you want to drink and your conscience is clear, it's not worth fighting over... some fundies would condemn to hell
12/27/2007 8:24:02 AM
It's Jesus Juice!
12/27/2007 8:26:28 AM
No alcohol == not wine.
12/27/2007 8:28:00 AM
So your God can't even create alcohol, but he can create the universe and do whatever else he damn well wishes to?
12/27/2007 8:31:44 AM
The point in that story was that Jesus had brought forth the good wine after everyone had already got drunk on wine of less quality and could not enjoy the wine Jesus made. It was alcoholic, man, get used to it.
12/27/2007 8:41:11 AM
If it is not intoxicating it is not wine. Then it it is grape juice.
12/27/2007 9:57:03 AM
So, apart from carpenter, Vineyard keeper?
12/27/2007 10:27:08 AM
That wine was surely of better quality but ALCOHOLIC. Yes, if you drank too much you got drunk.
12/27/2007 10:28:17 AM
Fresh, unpasteurized grape juice ferments all by itself in an insanely short period of time. In fact, without access to modern canning techniques, it's impossible to store otherwise. And wine and ale are a hell of a lot safer than straight water would have been.
Amphorae have been found from roughly the same period with identifiable and unmistakable traces of alcoholic beverages. Intact and sealed wine storage jars have been found that were far older. Since literally everyone else in that region of the world drank fermented beverages, it's a sure bet that the ancient Jews did, too. And so did Jesus.
You're an idiot.
12/27/2007 11:38:01 AM
G rated Jesus?
12/27/2007 12:08:54 PM
Where does the bible say Jesus created grape juice?
I thought so.
12/27/2007 12:56:11 PM
I actually agree with this.
<<Since Jesus was accused of being a drunkard - it was the real thing.>>
Accusation =/= proof.
<<Not much of a miracle then if he just created grape juice.>>
OK, let's see YOU turn water into grape juice.
<<Either way, you characterize Jesus as either a charlatan, a fraud, or an idiot.>>
<<No alcohol == not wine.>>
<<If it is not intoxicating it is not wine. Then it it is grape juice.>>
Maybe they didn't know the difference.
<<So your God can't even create alcohol....>>
Or doesn't choose to.
12/27/2007 1:54:37 PM
You people worship a drunk. Get over it.
12/27/2007 2:16:01 PM
First of all, read Tempus' post. Second, wine has been a common drink in the Middle East for its entire history as we know it. Remember the part of the Bible where Moses passes out drunk and naked? Obviously, alcohol wasn't a big deal.
Oh, and just so ya know, the words for "juice" and "wine" are different in both Greek and Hebrew.
12/27/2007 2:34:56 PM
So God could instantly create the hundreds of ingredients in grape juice but couldn't go the extra step and make wine instead? Besides, the Bible says nothing about the number of guests. Plus guests who had already been drinking wine would hardly call raw grape juice "good wine".
"No man also having drunk old [wine] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better." (Luke 5:39)
12/27/2007 3:20:07 PM
It's safe to say that before the universal recognition of germ theory, people who drank beers or wines (or teas, for that matter) were healthier in the long run than those who didn't. Even children.
It's also safe to say that many many millions died over the ages from waterborne pathogens.
12/27/2007 3:39:25 PM
The story says that the best wine is usually served first, then the bad stuff brought out. There would be no point to that unless the first round got people drunk enough not to notice the decline in quality.
12/27/2007 3:45:11 PM
THE DAMN BIBLE SAYS WINE, NOT GRAPEJUICE! Another fucking fundie liar, pushing his agenda of anti-alcohol by making up shit and placing it in the Bible. The truly hysterical thing is, I bet that this same hypocritical fundie, interpreting the Bible his way, will claim to take the Bible literally. Liars follow liars, and we all know what the boss at CSE is(and where he is).
12/27/2007 4:14:16 PM
Denial for Jesus award
12/27/2007 4:42:38 PM
<<Oh, and just so ya know, the words for "juice" and "wine" are different in both Greek and Hebrew.>>
I didn't know that; perhaps He made something like wine with the alcohol removed. Perhaps the authors of the Gospels misremembered or misheard.
<<So God could instantly create the hundreds of ingredients in grape juice but couldn't go the extra step and make wine instead?>>
No, I'm saying He wouldn't CHOOSE to.
<<It's safe to say that before the universal recognition of germ theory, people who drank beers or wines (or teas, for that matter) were healthier in the long run than those who didn't.>>
It would certainly be well within the powers of an omnipotent deity to create wine-minus-alcohol that was germ-free. Or maybe instead of wine-MINUS-something, He created wine-PLUS-something, the additional ingredient being a substance that blocks the psychoactive effect of ethyl alcohol on Homo sapiens.
<<THE D--- BIBLE SAYS>>
"D--- Bible"? Remind me to get a more robust irony meter...
12/27/2007 4:43:51 PM
Jesus can turn water into grape juice.
12/27/2007 4:50:35 PM
The Bible declares Noah to be perfect even though he is shown to be a passed-out, naked drunk. What's your problem with wine?
12/27/2007 5:42:52 PM
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