downwv #fundie

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[There is no evidence for a creator.]

You wanna see evidence?

Look in the mirror. Take a biology class. Look at your wife and compare her to your child (if you have any)....Look at the human fucntions and how EVERYTHING in the body comes together to produce something beautiful. It could not form itself...which ironically is the basis of science.

And has science come up with an explanation as to how and why we think and form thoughts. Why we have a conscience. What about our souls? How do they work, where are they formed? Beleiving in the Bible and religion is one thing, but you really can't dispute a creator.

[There is no such thing as a soul.]

WAIT A MINUTE! You cant say that we dont have souls. That is ridiculous. You dont have to be religious to understand that all humans have souls. Even Aristotle makes that claim....Is there anyone else here who doesnt believe humans have souls. How do we think. How do we perceive and make decision. What drives us. What keeps us alive. If it were only our organs we'd be zombies. What helps us decide right from wrong and then chose either or? Come on even atheists should know that we have souls!

67 comments

old comment by cyborgtroy

"You wanna see evidence?"

If it doesn't suck.

"Look in the mirror."

HOORAY! SPECULAR REFLECTION!

"Take a biology class."

Evolution... Yeah that actually makes sense.

"Look at your wife and compare her to your child (if you have any)...."

Yeah, my hypothetical children look sorta like me and my hypothetical wife.

"Look at the human fucntions and how EVERYTHING in the body comes together to produce something beautiful."

Yeah, it's just like every other high-level organism. Evolution makes a lot of sense.

"It could not form itself"

So the uterus-cake is a lie?

"And has science come up with an explanation as to how and why we think and form thoughts"

Because evolution favored smarter beings, and we think by firing neurons. pew pew pew.

"Why we have a conscience."

Because killing people is bad for the human race and so tends to die out.

"What about our souls? How do they work, where are they formed?"

Souls? what about them, indeed?

"but you really can't dispute a creator."

I... I think I can....

"WAIT A MINUTE! You cant say that we dont have souls."

YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO REFUTE MY ARGUMENTS!! *cry*

"Even Aristotle makes that claim"

Who the fuck is Aristotle and why should I care if he thinks souls exist ir bit?
Freaking argument ad authoritum.

"How do we think."

Brains...

"How do we perceive and make decision."

Brains...

"What drives us. What keeps us alive."

Brains?

"If it were only our organs we'd be zombies."

BRAINS!!! And brains are the organ that tells us what to do, so stfu.

"What helps us decide right from wrong and then chose either or?"

BRAINS!!

"Come on even atheists should know that we have souls!"

AARGH! NO!! FUCKING BRAINS!!

old comment by Septic Sceptic

"How do we think. How do we perceive and make decision. What drives us. What keeps us alive."

Each of these have been linked to activity in the brain. Chemical activity in the brain. Placed there by evolution. I'd get you specifics, but my own grey matter is too tired to plough through a google search on "neuroscience" at the moment. If nobody has beat me to it by tomorrow i'll get you your damn explaination.

But really Down, the very fact that I, knowing nothing about the anatomy of the brain, can dip into the internet and gather this information in minutes, reflects badly on you. I favour the theory of evolution because i've taken a serious objective look at the alternatives and found them unconvincing. Can you really say the same for creationism?

old comment by Wandering Discordian

Ok, the evidence for a creator bit is pretty useless. But his thing about souls can actually be related to a discussion that been going on between philosophers for a long time. He even uses the right term, zombie.
The argument is, basically, that the only evidence for the fact we are self aware and thinking is our ability to realize that we think. But this only applies on a personal level; we cannot know if other people are thinking or not. Someone might well not actually have a mind, with everything they do being a flat, automatic reaction. They're completely behaviorist, essentially, and don't actually think. They're zombies. And since we can't directly detect other's minds, only their behavior, we cannot know if other humans are actual thinking beings or just zombies. Many liken the essential quality of "thinking" to something like a soul. Not necessarily the goes to heaven/hell kind, but something beyond what is present in the flesh. And saying "we think with our brains!" isn't really useful either, because we know so little about the human brain, we might well be completely wrong about any number of things we think we know for sure. Neuroscience has a long way to go before we can even begin to say anything definite about the brain.
And cyborgtroy, are you sure you aren't a zombie? You keep crying "Brains!"

old comment by Xotan

WAIT A MINUTE! You cant say that we dont have souls.

- Prove it!

That is ridiculous.

- Why?

You dont have to be religious to understand that all humans have souls.

- you haven't proved it yet.

Even Aristotle makes that claim....

- So, he was a pagan. You can't be believin' what them pagans say, surely?

Is there anyone else here who doesnt believe humans have souls.

- It's never been proved to me, so how could I know for sure.

How do we think. How do we perceive and make decision.

- With our minds - electrical impulses that die with the body.

What drives us.

- Sex

What keeps us alive.

- nothing. We all eventually die, some, tragically, quite young.

If it were only our organs we'd be zombies.

- let me remind you...we have minds. Not so sure about you though. Are you a Zombie?

What helps us decide right from wrong and then chose either or?

- an innate sense of justice that right thinking engenders. It is nothing divine or religious. Even the pagans had this, and they based their laws on it.

Come on even atheists should know that we have souls!

- I refuse to come/go anywhere a fundie comes/goes.

old comment by

The argument of the creator is pretty flawless, because we would have to asume that God was created by somebody else and make circular reasoning impossible. Then we have soul. Science has long explained how we organise and produce thoughts. What you're sticking too is a medieval concept which was concocted after, yes, aristotelian phylosophy which has been totally depassed by modern science. By the way, soul is a loan from Platonic philosophy through St Agustine. And it was, again,the approximate way to explain the thinking process in a pre-scientific time(they don't know anything about brains and neurons). So, yes, you have to be "religious" to believe in souls.