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Quote# 35571

If there is no God, then what do you attribute the death of hundreds of thousands of infants to? Mother nature? What kind of a nature is that, or what kind of a mother would allow hundreds of thousands of infants to die?

When Darwin's daughter died, Darwin could not accept any explaination for why it happened. He could not accept a God who would "allow" his daughter to die, and he could not accept a natural world where it was possible for things like this to happen.

Is life and death determined by the twist and turn of events? Was it by mere chance that hundreds of thousands of infants died, with no reason for it? Were they just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

JohnR7, ChristianForums 65 Comments [2/28/2008 2:21:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: EnemyPartyII
WTF?! || meh
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King Duncan

The majority of those questions are answered by "Yes". It's odd, it reads like poe, but it's JohnR7. He actually seriously thinks this is an argument FOR god and not against. Kind of sad, really.

2/28/2008 4:55:01 AM

Mr Smith

What Horsefeathers said

Honestly, I think I'm beyond the point where a rational response would be valid.

2/28/2008 5:39:06 AM

cyborgtroy

Wrong place, wrong time... Wrong condition of cells, wrong lack of energy to survive...

2/28/2008 5:43:49 AM

Urh

So infants dying "because god willed it" is better? And you expect me to worship such a monster? This guy sure knows how to make a persuasive argument.

2/28/2008 5:55:44 AM

El_Duderino

holy shit, the irony.

2/28/2008 6:11:22 AM

Jud

Shit happens. I wish there were a better explanation, ultimately, the idea of a sadistic deity doesn't fix anything, never mind the absurdity.

We are responsible for ourselves, John. Us. We take care of us. There's no mystical design, John. Nothing. Just us, our own two hands. I know it makes you feel small and powerless, but it doesn't change the facts of the matter.

2/28/2008 6:12:43 AM

ORG

what deaths is this even addressing, was there some giant die-off of infants that i was not aware of, i dont understand this post

2/28/2008 6:21:29 AM

SweetViolet

@Antichrist "Mother Nature is sort of a hippie term. Nature would be much more accurate."

The term "Mother Nature" predates the hippies by at least two decades...my grandfather used to use the term back in the '50s when I was a little kid.

Perhaps you are thinking of the term "Earth Mother," which was a hippie term that referred to women who projected a mothering type of persona.

As far as Johnny boy here, seems to me that having a god that kills babies "just because" is a far worse scenario than the infants succumbing to natural causes. What sane person could worship such a monster?

2/28/2008 6:26:52 AM

Brenz

So your case for God is that everyone is mortal?

Or is it that God will kill babies? Because honestly: "What do you attribute the death of hundreds of thousands of infants to? God? What kind of a God is what, or what kind of God would allow hundreds of thousands of infants to die?"

I blame Ba'al Moloch, personally.

2/28/2008 7:40:53 AM

ArmandT

An actuarist would tell you, simply, that there are many factors to infant mortalit. None of which have to do with God.

2/28/2008 7:56:03 AM

Melaina Iris

...I'm in agreement with mother nature is a personification of an abstract idea.

I quote the great Howard Bloom - "Mother nature isn't fluffy, she's a bloody bitch!" She's constantly throwing hurricanes, tornadoes, massive floods, and other hurdles for the human race to try to jump.

And in fact, I move to Darwin, as you so brilliantly reference.... "We do not see, or we forget, that the birds which are idly singing around us mostly live on insects or seeds, and are thus constantly destroying life."

So, as far as attributing the death to... bad parenting, SIDS, disease, weakness, chemicals (legal and non legal and unknown) being pumped into the body while the child is forming, suffocation, crazy mothers who snap due to postpartum depression, babies being born before they're suppose to come out (premie babies), crazy fathers who think that the babies stole the spot light from them, and sometimes good old clumsiness (oops! I dropped my baby!), shaking them to hard, touching their soft spot to hard, there are many things to attribute the death of hundreds of thousands of infants to. Attributing it to God is just lazy, and if he really did that, it's kind of mean. Not to mention the fact that plenty of people die each year, and that death is a natural process, oh and again (not to mention) the fact that plenty of baby animals die each year, and that fly you swatted earlier today might have just finished gestating long enough to fly out into the world before you, not God, killed it - but it was still young! (although not a baby, I think those would be larvae... but I'm sure plenty of those die to when some animal that thinks they're tasty eats them.)

2/28/2008 8:40:23 AM

Paler_Face

Just because you have the emotional need to blame someone for the injustice in the world doesn't mean that someone is actually to blame.

2/28/2008 11:19:02 AM

Mister Spak

Did JohnR7 suddenly get less stupid? Not that he has risen to the smart level, but still . . .

2/28/2008 11:31:33 AM

FMG

Wait. So mother nature cannot exist because mother's are truly kind and so on but God (all loving) can be a total dick?

Mother Nature is like Father Time or The Reaper or the Tooth Fairy. An anthropomorphic personification of a event. She does not really exist.

Death is part of the natural world. Life cannot exist without death.

2/28/2008 12:01:58 PM

Frank

John R7 is my favourite fundie, but he hasn't posted in ages. I'm actually willing to bet he's hiding out to convince people he's been raptured.

2/28/2008 1:11:51 PM

Caustic Gnostic

Disease, malnutrition, neglect, exposure, genocide...all explained (but not condoned) by science.

BTW, Johnny, Mother Nature kicks g0d's retarded ass every time.

2/28/2008 1:22:02 PM

deathbird

Why do so many infants die?
Excluding genetic flaws and illnesses for which we do not yet have a cure, the real cause is usually man's inhumanity to man.

2/28/2008 1:55:18 PM

aaa

He can't just handle the truth.

2/28/2008 2:27:44 PM

John

Hey! JohnR7, the guy who makes supersport look like Einstein, is back, and dumb as ever!

2/28/2008 3:10:25 PM

tmr

Looking for an answer is the entire reason religion exists in the first place.

And once your brains is washed clean of all reason you can believe anything. Including the concept that god kills some people in order to teach other people a lesson of his goodness.


2/28/2008 3:33:50 PM

booley

So doesn't this paint God as an asshole?

I mean, Mother Nature is just a metaphor for the impersonal forces of nature. But God is supposed to be a person.

Which means God is committing infanticide on purpose.

2/28/2008 5:35:00 PM

GigaGuess

So, you want me to worship a deity that eradicates people like that on a whim?

2/28/2008 6:40:22 PM

Tom S. Fox

"A whole bunch of babies die, therefore god exists!"

Well, that's not a particularty flattering argument for god.

2/28/2008 8:53:17 PM

Old Viking

JohnR7 feels death is incredible if nature is responsible, and prefers to think of it as a boon from God.

2/28/2008 9:12:19 PM

crazyroper

You do understand that someone can just say "what kind of god would allow hundreds of thousands of infants to die".

2/28/2008 11:09:59 PM
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