God couldn't have killed off the dinosaurs - or anything else for that matter - before Adam. Scripture says death came thru Adam's sin. Therefore, no plants, no animals, no nothing died prior to Adam's disobedience. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. The dinosaurs weren't carnivorus. They grazed just like all the other animals. Remember, there was no sin. Scripture says death is the wages of sin. Have to stick with the Word and not fables or carnal suppositions.
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- Well, obviously, PLANTS died! If dinosaurs were eating them!
- What the heck are 'carnal suppositions'?
- One Jehovi is bad grammar. It's one JehoVAH, two Jehovi. Twelve of them make a Jehovax.
Adam and Eve ate fruit. They obviously had metabolism. To have metabolism suggests that they must have ate something to survive. Eating kills an organism. Therefore, there had to be death before the fall. Since this is a contradiction, the account is flawed and can be disregarded.
He's probably expecting everything was frugivorous (eating the fruit doesn't kill the plant, and some seeds need to go through a digestive tract to get a better chance to germinate).
Granted, that's not what "grazing" signifies (rapid regeneration, I guess he expects?), but...
But come to think of it, wasn't it Paul who inaugurated the idea that death came with Adam? So what does that make of any pre-Paul Jews who theorized that at least plants and animals may have been mortal in Eden?
Following your logic, nobody ate anything, for grass, trees, fruit, flower are living things, and they wouldn't be killed either?
When you shit, do you ask for salt?
To the people who questioned whether the plants that the dinosaurs ate before the Fall died, I've actually seen a fundy use this argument:
Leviticus 17:11 reads "The life is in the blood". Plants have no blood, therefore they aren't alive and can't die.
This is utterly absurd. Why does OUR free will have to affect the lives of the animals(who haven't any)?, moreover, why do some part of the original sin have to affect the rest of the creation and others not(for example, why did only Adam have to work the land and Eve have to bear children with pain, but, apparently, not the rest of the animals?). I have read that passage and God speaks about death addressing only Adam and Eve. Science, on the other hand, is blatantly clear, animals died in times and places where humans didn't exist. And the idea that death came into world through Adam is St Paul's idea. The problem is, he's not referring to PHYSICAL death, but the awareness of the finitude of life. But of course, as you insist on reading only the translation made in an English you don't understand...............
so there was no death but everyone was killing plants then, huh?
EDIT: oh, I see my argument's already been 'debunked', lol
Can't use the whole "life is in the blood" argument without admitting abortion is ok at the beginning of pregnancy, when there are no blood cells (or heart, or circulatory system, or any organs to carry blood to)
Fables: Fictional tales
Bible: Fictional tales
The only difference is those of the Grimm brothers are more fun and have a point that isn't "wow, God is great"
I think it's Hovind's position that T-Rex had that giant head and giant incisors for cracking coconuts.
Someone threw out the "Life is in the blood" argument. Where does that put insects? Because aren't they bloodless? And therefore lifeless?
What's up with these folks that insist "Death came through original sin" refers to actual physical death but then go on about eternal life through Jesus being metaphorical life in heaven?
It's gotta be totally literal except for that last bit, eh?
Even if all of the animals did eat the fruit of plants, it would still mean some sort of death was taking place (the cells that made up the fruit had to have been digested, which means... dun, dun, DUN!!!!..... DEATH!
Seriously, how do these morons fail this badly at logic??
Genesis says nothing about their being no death. In fact, why would God have a Tree of Life that granted immortality if everything was immortal anyway? The business about the Fall bringing death into the world was invented out of thin air by Paul. And even Paul was probably talking about spiritual death rather than actual death.
I always love how you people state that <your version> of Genesis must be taken literally (the bible says nothing about animals eating/not eating other animals. And if God's so against blood, why did he accept Abel's sacrifice and dismiss Cain's?
Yet when Jesus says "sell all your possessions and follow me", well, that's up for interpretation.
...no plants, no animals, no nothing died prior to Adam's disobedience. Whatever. I'll bite:
Nothing, plant or animal, had completed a single life cycle before Evie-baby grabbed the apple (even though the first trees and things were suddenly mature and fruiting during their first day). g0d didn't realize that in creating life, he also created death. Once he discovered that living things die, he promptly passed the blame.
That is the fable.
The dinosaurs lived and died before human religion came along, obviously. It's hard to say what sort of fables the dinos believed...did they have a cataclysm myth going?
This is bemusing. Animals couldn't have eaten each other before the Fall because that would constitute murder, which is a sin. But what about other sins, like fornication? If you're going to insist that a Stegosaurus upholds biblical morality, you would have to pair them up and marry them, lest they commit a sin of the flesh- er, scale, and burn in Satan's Hell.
No plants died either? What did everything eat? I have heard people claim dinosaurs ate plants, but never anyone claiming we all used photosynthesis to survive.
But wait... then you said the dinosaurs grazed. So grass is not a plant now?
Absolutely 100% correct. "God couldn't have killed off the dinosaurs or anything else for that matter- before Adam." Or after Adam or with Adam or by Adam. Because there was no Adam. "Nothing. Nada. Zilch."PS Although I've enjoyed a lot of "carnal positions", I have only been about 20% sucessful in my "carnal suppositions"!
"God couldn't have killed off the dinosaurs - or anything else for that matter..."
As God doesn't exist, that much, at least, is true.
"God couldn't have killed off the dinosaurs - or anything else for that matter - before Adam."
So, you're saying God ISN'T omnipotent? Odd for a fundie....
Genesis 3:2-3 (NIV), <<The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'">>
Genesis 3:9-11 (NIV), <<But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" [Adam] answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid." And [God] said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?">>
So how does someone with no concept of nakedness know about death if nothing ever dies?
Genesis 3:22 (NIV), <<And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.">>
Why was there are tree of life that grants immortality if everything was immortal beforehand?
Why is someone with no knowledge of good and evil being punished when they could have had no concept that disobeying God was wrong?
Finally, where does it say that death came into the world when Adam and Eve ate from the tree?
Just curious.
When you hear those theories about how the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Iraq or the like...
How do those people explain the fossils found everywhere forever? And why did God make all the animals for Adam to use if they weren't some of them going to die? Was it just butter and wool before that?
The Bible gets so much better without the literalism. At least then the parts that aren't treachery, rape and murder become cool again.
"Scripture says death is the wages of sin."
Right, and the Jewish people also believe that a Messiah will be sent from Heaven and end death. Christians believe that person was Jesus, whose death and Ressurrection was supposed to have ended that. Yet we still die.
So that means either Jesus did not exist, or if He did, He was not the Messiah, OR you don't understand what that scripture actually means.
God made all life and nothing developed afterwards.
Nothing died before Adam sinned.
Based on those two premises just a quick question
...those organisms which rely on decomposing plants and animals to survive, what did they eat after god had made them but before Adam sinned and created death?!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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