Jospeh Farah #fundie

Jospeh Farah #fundie wnd.com

To understand why abortion is still illegal, despite Roe v. Wade, you must begin by doing something few Americans bother with anymore – reading the preamble to the U.S. Constitution.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America," it says.

Important words all. But I want you to focus right now on those to whom this document applies. Who are the subjects and beneficiaries of the Constitution, as stated clearly in the preamble?

The answer? "— to ourselves and our posterity —"

The word "ourselves" in this context refers to those men who wrote it – and to their generation of Americans.

"Posterity," which literally means "descendants" or all succeeding generations, refers, in this context, to all those Americans yet unborn.

Is your great, great, great, great granddaughter your posterity? Absolutely. Is she born yet? Absolutely not. Does the fact that she is not yet born make her any less your posterity? No.

44 comments

old comment by Grand Archblasphemer of York

Does this mean that the Founding Fathers wanted us to assure that every single sperm of every male within this nation becomes a human being? Obviously yes. Does it also mean that women who miscarry are committing treason? Absolutely. Does this mean that anyone who has ever killed anyone else, be it in war, self-defense, accident, or deliberate cruelty, should be counted as mass murderers for the generations of potential lives wiped out by killing that individual? I'm sure that George Washington thought so.

Or it could just mean that you being too liberal with what "posterity" actually means? But I know that can't possibly true...

old comment by

"The word "ourselves" in this context refers to those men who wrote it and to their generation of Americans.

"Posterity," which literally means "descendants" or all succeeding generations, refers, in this context, to all those Americans yet unborn."

Does Farah mean that those and only those who can trace their ancestry back to at least one of signers of the Constitution can call themselves American citizens?

If we take this argument as true, at least 95% of everyone who live here are actually illegals.

However, I fail to see how this argument pertains to his thesis that abortions are illegal. Since anyone who is not descended from the signers are not themselves "citizens", it follows that any great great great granddaughter of anyone's posterity is free to choose abortion.

I conclude that Farah is a dumbshit.

old comment by 1Burning Stake

Munchiez:

Actually, abortion is known to have been around for centuries; we have many records of "natural" abortion remedies. My personal theory is that it only became an "issue" in this century once it became possible to separate sex from pregnancy, with modern contraceptives. And once it became officially legal, of course. Women had been having abortians for centries before that, whether they had to be kept secret or not.

I've never had an unintended pregnancy because I'm responsible in my choice of partners and always make sure at least one of us has a prophylatic. However, I could not be on birth control one day, get raped going down the street, and then have an unintended prenancy. I've never had to deal with the issure personally, so I have no "official" opinion on the issue. It's the woman's body, and the rest of life if she intentds to keep the child (even if she gives it up for adoption, that's a part of her that will continue to exist whether she's there to care for it or not) so it's her choice, and the fathers' if he cares enough. I think it's something that every person has to decide for themselves.

old comment by David D.G.

"To understand why abortion is still illegal, despite Roe v. Wade...."

And Joseph Farah's argument trips right out of the starting gate and falls flat on its face.

Abortion is NOT still illegal -- it is perfectly legal, within certain defining conditions, and Roe v. Wade is one of the reasons why. Otherwise, you fundies wouldn't still be gnashing your teeth over it and trying so desperately to have it overturned.

Also, there wouldn't be "abortion clinics" (i.e., OB/Gyn clinics where abortions are sometimes performed) operating openly as such, and you could just call the police on them instead of endlessly harassing their staff and patients.

Abortion is LEGAL. Deal with it.

~David D.G.

old comment by 1Burning Stake

Munchiez:

You're welcome! Thank you for not thinking I was merely trying to push a "pro-choice agenda." (Not that I'd think you'd natuarally think that just because of that one thing about you, but thank you for being kind about it anyway.)

From what I had read and learned about classical history, I knew that abortion was "legal" in the ancient world for a variety of reasons, not least because it was the only form of "birth control" many people had. The ancient Greeks, for example, wouldn't quite abort the baby but they would get rid of it: After a woman had given birth, if the baby was deformed or otherwise unwanted, they would leave the babies upon hillsides to die. That way, it was exposure that killed them, not the parents themselves and if they were picked up by someone, say, a lonely shepherd with no children, then it was the will of the gods and they had in fact done the right thing! That way, whether they died or not it wasn't up to them, really, since it was just The Will of The Gods!! So nothing for them to need to feel gulty about (well, at least theoretically.)

Yeah, so I wasn't trying to push the "moral legitimacy of abortion" on you or anything like that. Just to show that it had in fact been going on for thousands of years, whether you are pro-choice, pro-life or, like me, undecided on the issue.