Quote# 36823

To understand why abortion is still illegal, despite Roe v. Wade, you must begin by doing something few Americans bother with anymore – reading the preamble to the U.S. Constitution.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America," it says.

Important words all. But I want you to focus right now on those to whom this document applies. Who are the subjects and beneficiaries of the Constitution, as stated clearly in the preamble?

The answer? "… to ourselves and our posterity …"

The word "ourselves" in this context refers to those men who wrote it – and to their generation of Americans.

"Posterity," which literally means "descendants" or all succeeding generations, refers, in this context, to all those Americans yet unborn.

Is your great, great, great, great granddaughter your posterity? Absolutely. Is she born yet? Absolutely not. Does the fact that she is not yet born make her any less your posterity? No.

Jospeh Farah, World Net Daily 44 Comments [3/28/2008 1:10:45 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Sayna

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Grand Archblasphemer of York

Does this mean that the Founding Fathers wanted us to assure that every single sperm of every male within this nation becomes a human being? Obviously yes. Does it also mean that women who miscarry are committing treason? Absolutely. Does this mean that anyone who has ever killed anyone else, be it in war, self-defense, accident, or deliberate cruelty, should be counted as mass murderers for the generations of potential lives wiped out by killing that individual? I'm sure that George Washington thought so.

Or it could just mean that you being too liberal with what "posterity" actually means? But I know that can't possibly true...

3/28/2008 1:13:52 AM


Yes by reading the Preamble you are a scholar of American government and history. The preamble does not contain policy or law. I love it though because the School House Rock version kicks ass.

3/28/2008 1:18:45 AM


So.. becvause I wasn't born here, this doesn't apply to me?

3/28/2008 1:21:25 AM

Mattural Selection

I fail to see how this has anything to do with abortion. Any words can be twisted to mean anything you want, if you try hard enough. I once read the coming of the apocalypse in the lyric sheet for a Vanilla Ice album.

3/28/2008 1:22:15 AM

Old Viking

What in the hell is unborn posterity?

3/28/2008 1:26:03 AM



3/28/2008 1:30:51 AM


It's funny how he twisted the words to include fetuses, zygotes, sperm and ova but "conveniently" forgot that women are people.

3/28/2008 1:34:12 AM


I'm pretty sure abortion wasn't around back then.

Although I'm pro life myself, this guy is going to extremes to push what is nothing more than an opinion on others.

3/28/2008 1:36:59 AM

Deep Search

You know, there are people who don't have kids. And you can't count people as existing when they, like, don't...

And, yeah, women that actually exist trump the non-existant potential people, thanks.

3/28/2008 1:40:41 AM

Reverend Davidius

I do not take responsibility for those not born yet, only the world I leave behind for them.

3/28/2008 1:41:50 AM

Philbert McAdamia

To understand why abortion is still illegal, despite Roe v. Wade,

I may be mistaken here, but I believe it IS legal, and partly because of RvW. Otherwise what's all the fundy/ repuke talk about "overturning Roe v. Wade" ? Maybe it's a states' issue?

I'm pretty sure abortion has been performed since the first cave persons got an inkling what was going on. Oh, and our posterity - that's who's footing the bill for the White House Monkey - the great great great great grandchildren

3/28/2008 1:44:15 AM


So neglecting to have children is just as immoral as abortion?

3/28/2008 1:56:34 AM

Old Sage

"I once read the coming of the apocalypse in the lyric sheet for a Vanilla Ice album."

I'm pretty sure Vanilla Ice releasing an album WAS the apocalypse.

3/28/2008 1:59:02 AM

"The word "ourselves" in this context refers to those men who wrote it – and to their generation of Americans.

"Posterity," which literally means "descendants" or all succeeding generations, refers, in this context, to all those Americans yet unborn."

Does Farah mean that those and only those who can trace their ancestry back to at least one of signers of the Constitution can call themselves American citizens?

If we take this argument as true, at least 95% of everyone who live here are actually illegals.

However, I fail to see how this argument pertains to his thesis that abortions are illegal. Since anyone who is not descended from the signers are not themselves "citizens", it follows that any great great great granddaughter of anyone's posterity is free to choose abortion.

I conclude that Farah is a dumbshit.

3/28/2008 2:01:24 AM


You are an idiot. They were referring to their children, not some imaginary ones centuries down the line. What about people who can't have children? Are you going to say next it doesn't apply to them?

3/28/2008 2:15:10 AM


3/28/2008 2:17:14 AM

Brian of Nazareth

Cue from the most excellent Grand Archblasphemer of York:

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm gets wasted
God gets quite irate

(mmm.. Monty Python...)

3/28/2008 2:28:25 AM

Good grief, even for Farrah and worldnutdaily that leap would have required a kangaroo with a jetpack!

3/28/2008 3:20:02 AM

1Burning Stake


Actually, abortion is known to have been around for centuries; we have many records of "natural" abortion remedies. My personal theory is that it only became an "issue" in this century once it became possible to separate sex from pregnancy, with modern contraceptives. And once it became officially legal, of course. Women had been having abortians for centries before that, whether they had to be kept secret or not.

I've never had an unintended pregnancy because I'm responsible in my choice of partners and always make sure at least one of us has a prophylatic. However, I could not be on birth control one day, get raped going down the street, and then have an unintended prenancy. I've never had to deal with the issure personally, so I have no "official" opinion on the issue. It's the woman's body, and the rest of life if she intentds to keep the child (even if she gives it up for adoption, that's a part of her that will continue to exist whether she's there to care for it or not) so it's her choice, and the fathers' if he cares enough. I think it's something that every person has to decide for themselves.

3/28/2008 5:36:01 AM

Following your logic, I should not have my period, men should not have nocturnal pollutions and death penalty should be abolished. Moreover, we should make sure we don't kill anybody in a fertile age, not even by accident, in order to ensure that many potential lives exist. Well, and you shouldn't prevent inmigration, or otherwise America would not have existed.

3/28/2008 9:27:14 AM

Mr Smith

Did you even read the preamble? To whom does this document apply? "We the people". It's right up there in fucking black and white.

3/28/2008 10:21:01 AM


I'll go with Brian of Nazareth and add

"Let the heathen spill theirs on the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for each sperm that can't be found"

Weleaase Bwian !

3/28/2008 10:30:55 AM

Mister Spak

Did you read the 14th amendment? No.

3/28/2008 11:24:31 AM

Blayze Kohime

You know if everyone on Earth followed the pro-life, anti-contraception, pop out as many babies as you can mentality, the world would be far more awash with poverty than it is due to overpopulation. In fact, aren't most impoverished nations highly Christian or Muslim and generally follow that mentality? Could their be a link?

3/28/2008 11:46:44 AM

Doctor Whom

The preamble to the Constitution is not law, as conservatives will gladly point out whenever anyone tries to establish justice or promote the general welfare. It certainly doesn't trump the body of the Constitution, which now includes that nasty old 14th Amendment.

3/28/2008 11:48:05 AM

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