Obviously failed history, imposing religion on a nation was something that happened a fair bit in the past within Europe at least.
3/30/2008 9:36:39 PM
The Supreme Court of what?
3/30/2008 9:55:14 PM
Citation needed on the supreme court thing.
3/30/2008 9:59:12 PM
What is your alternative to abortion then?
Remember, it must be an actual solution, not just more fundie lies.
3/30/2008 10:08:47 PM
@coolcats - Forcing women to be incubators whether they want to or not, obviously.
3/30/2008 10:12:22 PM
Secular Humanism as a religion? That was the 80's. I think the place was Alabama. The decision was overturned almost immediately.
Where the fuck did you get your MD/Ph.D, motard?
3/30/2008 10:14:04 PM
Thou shalt not bear false witness bitch! Eternal torment for you.
3/30/2008 10:31:04 PM
Grand Archblasphemer of York
Secular humanism is, I suppose, a religious philosophy.
However, secularism, in of itself, is not (which is what should be, and is, "imposed" upon on our society).
Nice try, but still fail.
3/30/2008 10:35:55 PM
Secular Humanism is a religion?
Wiki to the rescue..
Although for tax purposes some non-theistic organizations like the Ehtical Society can be considered "churches" (because they act liek Churches) the SCOTUS rejected the idea that anything non-theistic is religious automaticly.
As stated in Peloza v. Capistrano School District
"The Court responded, "We reject this claim because neither the Supreme Court, nor this circuit, has ever held that evolutionism or secular humanism are 'religions' for Establishment Clause purposes." The Supreme Court refused to review the case."
3/30/2008 10:36:25 PM
They are referring to "Torcaso v. Watkins" [FindLaw]
Specifically the bit where it says "[Footnote 11] Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others."
The Willkes are being deliberately disingenuous here (quell surprise), they are overextending a footnote to a Supreme Court decision into part of the decision itself, then incorrectly arguing that as Humanism is a religion, and many Humanists are secular, the secularism of state apparatus is promotion of their religion.
It's like arguing that the murder laws are Christian because many Christians are staunchly against murder. Oh wait, fundies do that too.
3/30/2008 10:38:23 PM
(1) Fundies often use "secular humanism" as a label for anyone who's not religious. That's not the way the term was used by the Supreme Court.
(2) The First Amendment has two parts regarding religion: religion may not be "established", and the free exercise may not be interfered with. Discriminating against atheists (or "secular humanists") interferes with free exercise, but it doesn't "establish" these as religions.
(3) Failure to pass a law against something you don't like doesn't constitute imposing a belief on you.
3/30/2008 10:40:07 PM
A philosophy and a religion are different things. That's why I get pissed off when people say that Confucianism is a religion.
3/30/2008 10:46:53 PM
Facts about fundies:
1) Fundies think that something with the word secular in it can still be a religion.
2) Due to their black and white world view, they fall to see that being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but I don't like abortion.
3) Despite 99% of our government being run by professing Christians, fundies still believe Christians are a persecuted minority powerless to stand up against the gay atheists secularist evolutionists.
3/30/2008 10:51:38 PM
3/30/2008 11:13:22 PM
What the fuck?
Abortions were made legal, mostly to put a stop to back alley abortionists that were killing women. Better to legalize and control it than to criminalize it and let it run rampant.
Sort of similar to what happened with prohibition.
3/30/2008 11:21:36 PM
Um...... no. It's Christianity that has fucked up this nation. It's trying to take away the freedom to be human, for pity's sake. You can keep your brainwashing and indoctrination. I like having my own thoughts and not being a slave to a man-made god. So.... fuck you.
3/30/2008 11:35:43 PM
Oh, so sorry that women having the right to CHOOSE what to do with their bodies bothers you. Fuck off.
3/31/2008 4:49:55 AM
Oh, you poor atheists...you can be oppressed if you want to be too...go ahead it's fine...
So...the FACT is there is no god, huh? How do you know? Did Santa or the wicked ol' witch of the wiccans or some aliens in a UFO come by your house for tea and biscuits and tell you, "hey man, there is no god, just thought you'd like to know" or is this just an assumption you let yourself believe because somehow it's soothing to your great intelligent mind and allows you to go on living the way you want to without having to be accountable to anyone.
And to you christians, muslims, jews and every other so called faith. Put your bedtime stories away for now and SHOW me your "god". I want to see some evidence. What? You can't give me evidence...huh? Interesting. Oh, and your "biblical scholars" don't count, of course they'll say god exists...but like you they can't give me proof outside of what's in their heads.
And you stupid atheists, you degrade the religious but somehow expect people to believe there is no god without proof. Sounds to me your beliefs and views are founded on faith too because outside of the thoughts in your idiotic heads you can't prove there is not god.
You're all a bunch of morons who are relying on faith to prove what you believe without any real evidence. How cute and amusing...a group of idiots all trying to prove a lie. Fundie religious and fundie atheists, thanks for the laughs...keep the comedy coming!:)
3/31/2008 5:28:59 AM
I could see humanism being defined as a religious viewpoint. But secular humanism, by definition, isn't isn't a religious belief.
3/31/2008 6:36:02 AM
3/31/2008 6:42:44 AM
Sorry to disagree with all here, but the good doctor is right. Secular Humanism is indeed the religion imposed upon the USA. Secular humanists have been forcing him to attend services in their Churches located in every town and suburb, denied him employemnt for not displaying the Secular Humanist Wholly Book, refused to accept his children into their schools, taxed him more than others for not sharing their beliefs, compelled his wife to have an abortion she didn't want... oh wait.
You're having some weird difficulty in reading comprehension there. Nobody on this posting said "There is no god" The closest ANYBODY came was Sakura who said "I like having my own thoughts and not being a slave to a man-made god".
Your suggestion that admitedly invented creatures might be treated by anyone as a source of information displays confused thinking on your behalf.
What God do you have in mind to imply we're too close-minded to recognise?
If you think your penis is God, I'm prepared to acknowledge it exists, however small it might be. If you're proposing that the standard Biblical conception of an omnibenevolent, omnipotent omniscient Creator exists, then the existance of evil proves Him to be a figment of the imagination.
You criticised atheists on this site for claiming they are persecuted and that God does not exist. IF they had made those claims they would be largely true with substantial supporting evidence. However, the claim was not made above. May I suggest you read what people actually say?
There's a truckload of evidence in the real world that refutes the idea of God. Several books exist that will direct you to the location of that evidence. Whether it will answer your demand for proof depends on which conception of a God you have in mind. Feel free to tell us.
3/31/2008 2:47:58 PM
Hey Dr. Maybe someone should educate you that a dicta does not have any lawful authority. Therefore, you are completely incorrect in your Torcaso v. Watkins reference, the supreme court NEVER defined Secular Humanism as a religion. Instead, Justice Hugo Black simply stated a non legally binding opinion.
3/31/2008 3:39:54 PM
Gee Thomas, God(or for that matter, all Gods) require the leap of faith by the individual, physical proof of any divine being simply does not exist in historical or scientific terms. Atheism requires a basic "lack of faith", a non-belief hardly requires proof. Atheists are by their very nature MORE MORAL than the rest of us when they behave in a socially acceptable manner because they do not have the inducement of heaven or the fear of hell, they simply do it because it is the right thing to do.PS I'm not an atheist, I imagine only about 30% of the posters here actually are atheists. Most are agnostic or non-fundie Christian I would wager.
3/31/2008 3:41:22 PM
John in Oz:
Ok, so you acknowledge my penis is a god. So you must be homosexual. By reason, you must be.
I don't advocate any god, nor do I deny a god. It's all relevant, right?
I'm not sticking to some biblical god. You want to acknowledge the bible fine, you want to acknowledge the Quran, fine, you want to acknowledge you stash of gay porn, fine. You, John, don't have THE truth no matter where YOU look. Everything is reletive, there is no TRUTH.
And I don't have to stick to just this forum, you idiot, to know this fundie site is full of them AND you fools who think mans reasoning is enough to judge our actions and live by. You claim any god that SEEMS like a liar and cruel because he destroys his enemies is evil, I say mankind is evil, EVEN you John, because mankind has a common nature that leads them to murder, rape, harm children, and commit all other means of injustice.
There's a truck load of evidence in the world of a god and all kinds of books, huh? Prove this evidence. Don't give me philosophy, John, give me evidence, concrete physical proof! And who cares about your books, they're all written by man, and we already know man is no better than the lying, evil, cruel gods that destroy humans just for being human. Is their a book written by a deity I can believe? Didn't think so.
Oh, and there's plenty of evidence saying there is no god as well and books written to "prove" it by men as well, John. Who do I believe, you or them?
Go worship your penis god to your gay porn, John, your rhetoric is worthless here..you have no proof to offer.
3/31/2008 7:16:58 PM
My only issue with is saying Atheists, by THERE nature or more moral. I believe I can safely say that Atheists are merely a part of mankind. And being in that nature, they are as corrupt as any other man. They are just as capable of horrendous acts as Hitler, Stalin, Hussein as anyone else. And I assume that there are many in prison for murder, rape, child molestion who claim to be christian, muslim, agnostic, or atheist alike. No man, within himself, is capable of judging for himself what is moral or not. All man can do is act according to the convictions they have about certain moral codes put in place for them to follow, whether its the bible, the Quran, or a goverments constitution or laws. But still, can man trust his conviction? Who's to say his conviction is correct. And being an atheist, what makes his judgement better than anyone else. It's all reasoning, not fact, not truth. It's all just a lucky guess because there is no absolute. If you say there is an absolute to anything it makes you just as much a fundie as the others. Remember, fundie's are adamant about there beliefs and absolutes. To say there are absolutes, my friend, makes you absolutely a fundie and a liar.
I will say this, I appreciate your humility and willingness to reason without attack and insult. And I'm intrigued by your suggestion of faith has to be involved to believe anything. Whether you're a fundie, atheist, agnostic or none of the above, why does everyone at this site verbally beat each other down when it all comes to the fact that your view requires just as much faith as a fundie's view. What makes you right and the fundie wrong. You say the fundie is wrong and should shut up. You say they should see things your way because their way is foolish. I say your wrong and should shut up. None of you can offer proof without faith! All seems like a big, childish fight don't you think? But I would still like proof of what you claim.
3/31/2008 7:27:38 PM