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Huffers

I have an invisible pet dragon called Gorko Gurglepits. He invented gravity.

If he can believe God without proof, can he believe that without proof?

Crosis

Short answer: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Long answer: Believing that you ate pizza requires no major leap of faith, because it fits with what we know about people (they have to eat sometime, and pizza's fairly common) and you have no reason at all to lie to us about it. God, on the other hand, is completely superfluous to what we know about the universe (that is, nothing we do know now would be any different whether he's there or not), there's plenty of reason for someone to lie about it (religion offers a way to control people through fear - not saying you're lying, but there's a good chance someone along the way was), and throughout history mankind's ability to \"invent\" gods makes it more likely that, absent any evidence to the contrary, the Christian God too is an invention of the human imagination.

Redhunter

Jesus-tap-dancing-goat-fucking-shit-balls-on toast.

Do you really think that is a good analogy? That the popular, proven, available, reasonable, observable, realistic notion of having a pizza for dinner is the same as believing in god? The question is, do you think we are that fucking stupid, or are you that retarded that you are actually serious?

Jordan666

I had pizza for dinner. Do you believe me or do you need proof?

I will need some proof of that. Preferablly some stomach contents.

Same goes for god. Just without the stomach contents.

szena

Depends. Do you expect me to rearrange my life and my belief system around the belief that you had pizza for dinner? No? Then who cares what you ate?

Philbert McAdamia

Either way - god/no god/pizza/no pizza who gives a rat's ass?

BCD

I've seen pizza and even had it for dinner. That you had it is plausable.

Supernatural bullshit, however, is not.

Aristotilus

I think the government of countries should make introductory AND advanced logic courses mandatory.
Seriously.

They have the basis of logic, but their use of it is simply headdesk worthy.

Canadiest

because you having pizza for dinner doesn't equal multi-million dollar corporations telling you how to live and taking mobey for nothing.

an actual comparision is: tomorrow I'm having Chinese food, Why can't I believe in wiccan beliefs?

BrotherofZeus

Because whether or not you had pizza for dinner is not particularly relevant to me, first of all. So I'm willing to believe that you had pizza for dinner on your word alone. In addition, it makes sense that you would have pizza- it fits in with prior observations (Humans can constantly be observed to have pizza. Now, if you had said that you had eaten a fried coelacanth, I would probably ask for some kind of evidence, since that would intrigue me, and goes against what I have observed regarding the human diet.

In short, the amount of evidence one should need, in my opinion (it will vary from person to person, there is no objective standard, although a certain amount of evidence will convince almost everyone), varies from claim to claim. The claim of God existing requires a much higher level of evidential support than your claim of eating pizza.

WhiteNoise

Show me your receipt than I will believe it.

shockmeshockmeshockmewiththatdeviantbehavior

#47693
Redhunter

Jesus-tap-dancing-goat-fucking-shit-balls-on toast.

XD!!! LMAOLOLROFL!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

shockmeshockmeshockmewiththatdeviantbehavior

http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm

GOD IS IMAGINARY

Proof #1 - Try praying

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.
Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.
In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.
In Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."
The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.
In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]
Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.
We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
In Mark 9:23:
All things are possible to him who believes.
In Luke 1:37:
For with God nothing will be impossible.
Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.
And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.



Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.
When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth.
Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer,
he is clearly lying.
If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements.

Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered.

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true.

Justanotheratheist

Nobody gives a fuck what you had for dinner, but we do know at least that pizza exists, and can even be delivered to your front door. Next time God does that I'll become a believer.

Philbert McAdamia

Pray for a pizza. It will be delivered "soon".
Pray to any and/or all the gods you choose.


Call Domino's. 30 minutes or less. Guaran-fuckin'-teed.

Swede

It's nothing to me whether you ate garbage or pizza, so no; I don't need proof.

It does matter to me if you want to force your religion or worldview onto others, so there I do need proof.

Dr. Shrinker

What you eat for dinner does not matter to me.

Trying to take science out of my childrens' classroom and replace it with superstitious hokum, telling my gay friends that they cannot get married in spite of their close and loving relationship because it makes you uncomfortable, telling me I'm not a good citizen because I don't kowtow to a divine entity in the exact same way you do...

THAT matters to me!

Elia

Mmmmmm, pizza.........*homer drool*

BTW, analogy fail.

lonedragon

I'm probably the only one here who doesn't believe that he ate pizza for supper. But then again, I'm one cynical asshole.

rw23

> Do you believe in things that are not proven?

And my question to you is how many things do you believe in that are not proven?

Amadaun

Because your pizza doesn't matter.

Some inhuman entity who wants to control my heart and mind is a rather larger proposition.

Bad Wolf

As some other posters have mentioned, pizza is a very common American dinner. Since you are not asking me to base the existence/nonexistence of my putative soul on the existence of pizza the question of your dinner last night is irrelevant. If you were to claim that eating pizza was the ONE and ONLY way to acheive paradise after death, then I might, with some justification, demand proof of your stomach contents/recipt/dirty dishes.

KR

I think you ate your proof. As for the other... well, you cannot eat what doesn't exist.

Quantum Mechanic

Pizza exists.

Apatheist

I have a 300 foot tall purple elephant named Seymour.

PROVE ME WRONG!!!