*about a student getting kicked out for not saying the pledge*
If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?
49 comments
If I lived in the states, I'd say the pledge, but I would say "one nation, indivisible" as it was originally written.
Of course that's not good enough is it.
I can say the pledge then use it to wipe my cum off after I masturbate. I say insincere pledges all the time.
True patriotism is through actions, not some silly words (which reminds me...)
On that note, this ain't exactly fundie. Ultraconservative maybe, but not quite fundie.
You will notice that you're not pledging to your country primarily. You're pledging to a gaudy piece of fabric first.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution and the Republic which it has created. I like the flag but it's just a symbol similar to the cross for Christians. It may be made to stand for a lot of things but, in the end, it's just a symbol - not the thing itself.
Because I'm a citizen? Because I pay taxes? Those aren't good enough reasons? Or perhaps just because educated people, even those who won't pledge allegiance to a piece of fabric, are good for the country on the whole?
If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?
So if your father is temporarily transferred to France and you move there for a year and attend public school, you'll have no problem pledging allegiance to the French flag?
Second Pyroclasm's comment.
I'm not from the U.S. and seeing film of schoolkids - waaaay too young to understand what they are actually saying - pledging alliegance kinda creeps me out a bit. It kinda reminds me of films of North korean kids pledging to thier leader ... or old style USSR 'young pioneers' doing the same thing.
I wonder if this person would pledge to any country they were in or whether they would only do it to America. And the Constitution is why. Remember that if they don't say the pledge, though I personally disagree, it goes under free speech. Which is in the Constitution. As such the student is a greater patriot than you
@Blayze Kohime: The founding fathers didn't write the pledge. It was written by Francis Bellamy. Wonder if the ultra-conservatives that make such a big deal of the pledge realize it was originally written by a socialist?
Pledge of Allegiance on Wikipedia
As someone who objects to the pledge on multiple grounds and therefore refuses to say it, I'm going to say that it's entirely possible to love your country without some mindless recitation of phrases. True patriotism comes from knowing what your country stands for and fighting to make it better, not from empty rituals and indoctrination. If anything, the pledge just cheapens patriotism. Recite a word or idea enough times, and it becomes meaningless. I love my country too much to do that. (Plus, the words "under God" have no place in there. They weren't even in the pledge originally!)
I pledge impertinence to the flag-waving unindicted co-conspirators of America, and to the Republicans for which I can't stand; abomination, underhanded fraud, indefensible, with liberty and justice forget it.
- Matt Groening, Life in Hell
Speaking of, just when did it become common for kids to say the pledge every day?
If we ever scrap the pledge, I think this would be a nice alternative (from the comments section [a href="http://dangerousintersection.org/2009/10/02/making-children-keep-saying-the-pledge-of-allegiance-is-teaching-them-history/ "]on here[/a]:
I Pledge:
- That I will stay well informed in order to be a responsible citizen;
- That I will do my best to elect competent representatives;
- That I will stay active in my community and government to maintain a country of which I am proud.
- That I will not take any Pledge to abide by the will of others, because my personal duties to myself, my family and my community are nondelegable.
EDIT: OK, forgot how to make links on here. Just copy and paste.
Malala Yousafzai. From Pakistan. She was given an education here in Britain. That was after she was shot in the head by the Taliban for daring to so much as think that she - along with all other women in that country - had the right to an education. The best neurosurgeons & consultants here in Britain ensured her survival to have what she wished for so much: an education. Along with her father working at the Pakistan embassy in London, she is a resident of Britain.
In both cases: her medical treatment & the education she wanted were via our NHS & state school system respectively: free .
And diplomatic - and trade - relations with Pakistan strengthened as a result of what was done for her, coincidentally? A small price to pay. No 'Pledge' by Ms Yousafzai required.
And another contributing member of British society. She winning the Nobel Peace Prize? A bonus & a feather in the caps of all parties - and countries - concerned. Win-Win-Win, the way I see it.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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