"To those who scoff at their Creator -One question - Would you say you have a conscience? If so, then know that only the Bible explains the origin of conscience. The moral law (which we've all broken) contradicts survival of the fittest (do what you have to to survive), but supports a Holy Law-Giver as described in the Bible."
35 comments
One: How do you know that we have a Creator to scoff at, much less that you are in a position to know that you are not effectively doing the same?
The bible "explains" the origin of things in the same way the myth of Thor explains thunder and lightning.
And the myth of Ares explains war and unrest.
Etc, etc.
Buddha and Confucius had nothing to say about morals.
Genghis Khan has over 10 million living descendents because he strictly adhered to Mosaic law.
My hat is an aircraft carrier.
"If so, then know that only the Bible explains the origin of conscience."
Conscience is a learned charasteristic. Properly raised children are taught to treat others well. Many folks are, to greater or lesser degrees, devoid of conscience.
It's not just bodily strength which makes a species "the fittest." Some social adaptations in humans, such as living in groups, are more successful if accompanied by certain ethics. Many of these behaviors are not passed on in DNA, but are learned generation to generation in the social group, making that species more successful.
MK -- Neither do the effects of conscience play much of a role in the Bible.
Conscience is a trait of the individual and is NOT mentioned in that collection of Babylonian mistranslations that some call a bible.
And once again, it makes sense provided you accept the supporting premise.
We desperately focus more efforts on explaining to them that evolution is not a "teaching" or an ideology or a religion with scripture and gods and a code of conduct.
Some people have a conscience about killing and eating animals, but the Bible doesn't say there is anything wrong with that. Some people have a conscience about spoiling pristine wilderness, others see it as something begging to be exploited. Some people have conscience that tells them the actions of the Biblical God Himself are repugnant!
If conscience is an innate universal that all people share and is dictated by God so as to conform to Biblical law, then why do so many peoples' consciences deviate so radically from the Bible? Sorry JRT, yours is a piss poor argument.
The is no example of conscience in rhe bible.
Nor is there any justce, decency, or morality in the bible.
Despite repeated requests, nobody among you fundamentalists has been able to come up with hard evidence of the Bible's supposed Divine inspiration. It is always Man who claims it is divinely inspired. Where is the equivalent of the Roman Catholic 'Imprimatur'?
I really am beyond all patience with this endless claim for the Bible. And no. Of itself it cannot prove itself.
How many times does this have to be demanded of you. You abuse our intelligence, and appear to have none yourselves that we could in turn try to abuse. It's just not fair!
"To those who scoff at their Creator...
I wouldn't call it scoffing so much as I'd call it searing contempt.
Would you say you have a conscience?
Yes...
If so, then know that only the Bible explains the origin of conscience.
No...it doesn't. But I'll humor you for a moment. What explained the origin of the conscience before the Bible showed up?
The moral law (which we've all broken)...
Speak for yourself.
...contradicts survival of the fittest (do what you have to to survive)...
That's not what "survival of the fittest" means. It's a phrase defined (roughly) as "The creature best suited to survive in a particular environment is the one that will usually survive."
...but supports a Holy Law-Giver as described in the Bible."
I can say with total confidence that nothing in my conscience supports anything at all to do with the Bible.
"Would you say you have a conscience? If so, then know that only the Bible explains the origin of conscience."
Well it is certainly an explanation, yes, but it's not the only explanation. Or even a particularly good one.
For a start there's all those other religions with their pesky creation myths. And there are the various philosophical explanations. Even a few adaptionist ones.
So plenty of explanations then.
The problem with believing in a divine moral imperative is that if our view of good and evil comes from God, then we have no basis by which to believe God is good. God could be evil incarnate (in absolute terms), but since we were given our ideas of what is evil by this 'evil God', we think he's doing the right things, hence is good.
To say "God is good" is to implicitly define a criteria for goodness that is external to God. Conversely, if all that is good is determined by God, then he can merely define "good" to be "whatever God does" and the term becomes meaningless since anyone, even Satan, could do the same.
First of all you could get the same thing from any other religious text.
Second survival of the fittest does not work like that. The survival of the fittest is not simply directed at individuals but also at the whole of a species. In a way it of course does say do what you have to to survive but that does not concern itself with individuals but with whole species. And for a whole species to survive some kind of basic moral would be a good thing. Hence morals fit in very well with the survival of the fittest.
Thirdly, although morals do exist there is no such thing as a moral law. There are and have been so many people and so many cultures with completely different wievpoints on what is and what is not moral. This rather proves that morals rather then being some kind of ingrained law are in fact subjective.
"If so, then know that only the Bible explains the origin of conscience."
Ignorant of the ventromedial cortex are we?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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