[Apparently, Christians resisted Nazism in some places in Germany; atheists wouldn't have resisted....if they had been there, which they weren't...for some reason]
Well, it's notable that most of those who resisted in Germany, and many other places (Bonhoffer, von Stauffenberg, Corrie ten Boom , etc) did so based on their Christian religious beliefs; if Dawkins et. al. had their way, no such resistance would have existed.
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The thing about Christianity is that it's a virtual mirror of whomever picks it up. It's so open to interpretation that believers fall on every side of every dispute. No matter the outcome, they can (and do) claim a win.
If the Nazis had won, we'd be hearing from them about all the Christians who used their faith to support the Fuhrer. The same is the case with counterfactual racism, slavery, communism, etc. Each time, be it Nazi fascism or slavery, they forget that this enemy position was founded almost entirely on someone's Christian beliefs and supported by millions of others'.
"Well, it's notable that most of those who resisted in Germany did so based on their Christian religious beliefs"
It's also notable that many German Christian churches used forced labour from concentration camps. So some Christians resisted, some cooperated and some exploited.
You know, it's almost as if someone's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) wasn't a good indicator of their support for the Nazi regime! LOLZ!
A large percentage of the german population were christians.
Aside from the christians who resisted against the regime there were lots of christians who supported it, be it as KZ guards, executives or even as "loyal citizens" who denounced their neighbors because they secretly harbored jews.
"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
- Adolf Hitler, 1933 speech in Berlin
"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity."
Adolf Hitler, August 26, 1934, speech in Koblenz
Sure. Except that we have photographic evidence that doesn't agree with you.
image
For those who don't recognise him, that's Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Pacelli,
AKA Pope Pius XII, the Venerable.
"Bonhoffer, von Stauffenberg, Corrie ten Boom"
They didn't do anything until mid 1944, and that was only because they realised Hitler was leading Germany to certain defeat in WW2. At the beginning of the war when Germany was winning they weren't complaining then.
It had nothing to do with any particular religious beliefs they may or may not have held.
Being overlooked is the fact that Germany back then was overwhelmingly a Christian country. The number of people who did stand against the Nazis was a miniscule proportion. Mentioning names like Bonhoeffer means nothing in the bigger picture. His tragic end has caught the public imagination. That's all. There were others too who suffered grisly ends, but it doesn't alter the fact that overwhelming majority of Germany's Christian, of all denominations, went along the the Nazi machine, and blinded itself to the fate of the Jews, Gypsies Homosexuals and others that were to their knowledge being exterminated. Not to mention those who were quite simply starved and worked to death. Christian everywhere suffer guilt by association. But most especially, Christians in Germany do not have a clean bill of health during the Nazi period.
The final two clauses of your piece, Jhud, are one on the most brilliant non-sequiturs I have come across in a while.
Matthew 5:39 = Jesus implores his followers not to resist evil.
God has instituted human government - Rom. 13:1; Prov. 8:15,16
Those governments are answerable to God, not to people...Rom. 13:6, Ps. 2:2-6,10; Rev. 17-20.
Keeping this in mind, Christians who studied the scriptures would likely have a difficult time justifying disobedience of the Nazi government, which had the full support of many, if not most, Christian denominations in the countries and provinces that were under the occupation or influence of the Third Reich.
In fact, officials from the Evangelical denominations of Germany declared the Holocaust to be punishment placed upon the Jews for their rejection of Christ.
If anything, Christians would be slipping on the swastika brassieres, flipping through pages of Der Sturmer, and helping to reveal Jews among the population, if they followed their Scriptures.
So there, owned.
Oh, and most important of all.
Romans 13:2.
If you resist your government, you are resisting God.
Biblical Literalist Christians make good Nazis.
@Amos,
The same could be said for everybody, including Atheists. The truth is that Hitler both was supported by and persecuted Christians AND atheists, so, yes, in a way you´re right. If he had won, they would be chanting another chant.
Cough Cough, May I bring up Hitler's Pope?
Oh wait, that's right. You fucksticks disregard Catholicism.
It's also notable that most of the Nazis were good Christians as well. So...fuck off.
[Do you honestly think that the Holocaust would have made any sense if perpetrated without Christian-borne anti-Semitism?]
Atheism was reviled by Nazi mandates then and now. Proclaiming you were an Atheist could land you in a camp. This fairy tale of an Atheist Germany or Nazi party is totally debunked by masses of religious edicts, appeals, practices and proclamations from the onset of the party.
What is Dawkins' way and how did he present it during the WWII?
People with strong integrity and open minds resisted the idea that some people are less worthy due to their religion, gender, sexual orientation, skin-tone and/or world-view.
People who are swayed by power, and people who have weaker integrity, did not resist that idea.
Could it be because communists, socialists, trade unionists and freethinkers (read: atheists and agnostics) were the first sent to concentration camps?
The bulk of the Resistance in most of Europe was either patriotic or communist. Religious groups were there, but their role was by far secondary.
Look up the German “Freidenker” (free thinkers) movement, especially the reasons why their numbers went down from at least over 500,000 in the early 1930s to about 5,000 in the 1950s.
Oh, and here is a table of the identification signs that concentration camp prisoners had to wear:
image
Notice how there is no sign for Christians? This leads us to the conclusion that you didn’t get thrown into a camp just for being a Christian, in contrast to being a Jew or a Jehova’s Wittness.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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