Bottom line is you cannot be a Christian unless you accept ALL the teachings of Christ and the New Testament.
This excuse of 'move with the times' is utter rubbish. You cannot cherry-pick which bits you like and which you don't. You can only accept Christ on Christ's terms not yours.
Remember, to be a Christian & live like a Christian is supposed to be difficul, trying and a daily struggle and involve personal sacrifice. That's what makes it worthwhile. There is no easy way to heaven.
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Drop the shrimp, take off any mixed fabrics you're wearing, and cancel that haircut appointment, heretic.
Actually, guys, he's only talking about having to obey what Christ said himself, and what was taught in the New Testament. So shrimp and mixed fabrics are still okay.
I guess that means that being gay is okay with him, too.
He doesn't do too good a job with the teachings, though. He says, "there is no easy way to heaven," but Christ said, "my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." I guess reasonable minds can disagree.
Nah, actually, I was talking to a christian friend, stuff about not being gay is in the New Testament too.
If you have any posessions other than the robes on your back then you aren't living like a True Christian (TM). That includes your house.
Jesus and his ilk lived off the charity of others, and wanted his followers to do the same.
Nah, actually, I was talking to a christian friend, stuff about not being gay is in the New Testament too.
Only in translation.
As for "Andy Williams"...I somehow don't think he's given away all his belongings to the poor just yet.
Nice save with the whole "Christ and the New Testament." 'Cause, you know, there was so much Christ in the Old Testament. So, you have to accept everything that Christ taught, and also all the stuff that Paul taught. The real fun should be the double-think involved in doing what one taught when it's contradicted by the other. Or should that be quadruple-think?
Nah, actually, I was talking to a christian friend, stuff about not being gay is in the New Testament too.
But not in the teachings of Christ. Paul doesn't like the gays, but that doesn't apply to the teachings of Christ, which is what our friend andy williams is on about.
-Frank
The man? I accept the notion that he lived.
The message? Applicable to all eras, all cultures, all people.
The myth? This now, is how Christianity got fucked.
Bottom line is you cannot be a Christian unless you accept ALL the teachings of Christ and the New Testament.
What? No OT in there? So... does that mean the whole 10 Commandments bit is irrelevant now? Or does that mean you're cherry-picking parts of the Bible you like?
I doubt he realises just what he's done there...
from "The Poisonwood Bible" by Barbara Kingsolver:
"God's word, brought to you by a crew of romantic idealists in a harsh desert culture eons ago, followed by a chain of translators two thousand years long."
Remember, to be a Christian & live like a Christian is supposed to be difficul, trying and a daily struggle and involve personal sacrifice.
But then when they're arguing with Catholics, fundies say "... a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ"
Actually, I agree with this post. Much as we rightly ridicule fundies, they're correct as far as their scripture is concerned.
Moderate Christianity is just a version of the religion where the scripture and dogma are watered down by individual conscience, wishful thinking and modernity. Half the time, they can't articulate what they even believe, never mind what they base their beliefs on.
Either the Bible is the "Word of God" or it's not. There is no middle-ground.
EDIT TO ADD: So there's no confusion where I stand, I've picked "option B: it's not".
@ NobleSavage
I actually agree. The fundamentalist idea of "all or nothing" is really the only honest way to go about following scripture if it truly is the word of God. Of course, even fundies don't follow every bit of it.
Anyway...
In the NT Jesus says that the laws of the OT are forever
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20
Many Christians will point out that the crucifixion marked the end of the law of the prophets, or they will give some other biblical excuse as to why the OT laws are not necessary anymore. These same people will then point to Leviticus when discussing homosexuality.
"Bottom line is you cannot be a Christian unless you accept ALL the teachings of Christ and the New Testament. "
The first requirement is the definition of the word "Christian". The second is just a claim made by the author.
@Smith: Jesus never actually said anything about homosexuality. In fact, the statements he makes about sexuality could be interpreted to both heterosexual and homosexual relationships.
No moving with the times, eh? EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE, EH?
So what is that, 75% cotton, 25% poly?
hmm....
And I'm quite sure that andy loves his enemies as his friends, gives all his earnings to charity and leaves the judging to GOD. What's that? Andy is a hateful, greedy, bigot? WTF?
@ NobleSavage --
Fundies claim to take an "all-or-nothing" approach. In practice, though, they mostly pick and choose according to their personal and political biases -- and then insist that they're reading the book "literally".
@ Brian-Sama
I agree that no Christian avoids cherry-picking the Bible to some degree, since the book is so hopelessly self-contradictory on even the most basic theological issues. It's impossible to follow every verse when the verses don't agree (including, btw, whether we're supposed to follow the OT laws; Paul would say "no" while Matthew would say "yes").
I would say the fundies are the most consistent with scripture, whatever dubious honor that may be. They can at least quote chapter and verse as a basis for their superstitions. The moderate Christians often seem to be making it all up as they go along.
And I've heard the "move with the times" argument from a moderate Christian as an excuse for the immorality of the OT. His assumption was that God couldn't condemn slavery because cultural norms of the era wouldn't have allowed for it. Yep, that's right, the power of God, complete with a booming voice from the sky, just can't overcome the zeitgeist.
Maybe there needs to be a "moderate Christians say the darndest things" board.
When was the last time you stoned someone for sinning, like eating shell fish or plating unlike things in the same field?
Remember, live it all or you are not a christian.
@tmr: ...like eating shell fish or plating unlike things...
Ah, that explains the whole kosher deal with the two sets of dishes..!
Have you ever gotten a haircut? If so, you're a hypocrite. Have you ever eaten shellfish, pork, beef from the back half of a cow, or anything else not kosher? If so you're a hypocrite. Have you ever worn polyester or any other mixed fabrics? If so, you're a hypocrite. Do you work on Saturdays? If so, you're a hypocrite. Do you support any wars or any form of violence whatsoever? If so you're a heretic. Do you give away everything you own, and live off of the charity of others? If so, you're a hypocrite. Just sayin'
@ noble savage et al.
There is no contradiction in 'having it both ways'. You simply remove the non-scriptural assumption that God is as insanely literal as a Fundamentalist.
Thus the Bible is God speaking to mankind in parable form. Talking snakes and donkeys, are much more plausible as instructional tale than as history.
This is the way that most Christians understand the Bible.
The verse most commonly cited to support Bible literalism, 2 Timothy 3:16 finishes mid sentence, and the next verse shows the sentence is about good works not inerrancy.
'God-breathed' is equivalent to 'inspired by God', but not to 'dictated by God'.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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