When people ask me why a good and loving God would allow someone to go to hell, my response is "Why wouldn't He?"
I look at it this way. I have two sons and know how much they mean to me. What if someone rejected them? Cursed their names, twisted their words, mocked them and denied they existed? What if they persecuted their friends?
I don't care how wonderful someone is by the world's standards...don't care how many good deeds they do...if they reject my sons, their big toe isn't getting through my door.
I challenge people to think about the ones they love the most--them imagine them being treated the same way Jesus has been treated. It puts some perspective on how God will allow people to suffer the consequences of rejecting the Son Who shed His blood for them.
People still say God should let people into Heaven because He's "supposed to be a forgiving God." Well, indeed He is...but forgiveness only comes through the Son these people reject.
Sadly, some folks will never get it...until it's too late.
43 comments
Can't you just feel that christ-stain love?
Fuck you, and fuck those socially retarded, homeschooled dipshits that you call sons.
By the way...
If I want to come into your single-wide, I'm coming in. You will not keep me out.
In your analogy, in which you are Yahweh and your sons are somehow a dual existence of Jesus, it isn't your sons that we have problems with. In fact, your sons seem like they would be pretty cool guys. After all, their views are a lot more progressive than yours were when you first showed up, and they generally talk more about peace and tolerance. They are more than happy to spread this message to their friends in an attempt to make the world a better place.
No, our problem is with your sons' friends. These millions of people only selectively listen to your sons, cherry-picking the parts of the message that suit their own agendas, at the same time conveniently ignoring the times when your sons told their friends not to judge people.
Unfortunately, nobody has ever actually verified either your existence or that of your sons. All we have is the word of these people who claim to have a personal relationship with your family, yet who preach an obviously bastardized version of the message attributed to your progeny.
Get it now?
Your analogy is flawed. Eternal paradise or eternal suffering are not the only two options. God is supposed to be omnipotent, so conceivably could allow the third option of 'just being dead'. This would make their suffering somewhat unnecessary when you have a way to keep them out of your house without making them suffer, yes?
Some of us have these things called compassion and mercy. Apparantly neither you nor your god do.
When people ask me why that first statement makes me want to smack someone with a clue-by-four, my response is, "Why wouldn't it?" Sadly, some folks will never get it...ever.
...but forgiveness only comes through the Son these people reject.
Let's not get carried away with giving each other congratulatory reach-arounds yet. Here's how the deal is actually structered:
Jehovah sent his son to be tortured and murdered so that He could allow Himself to forgive us for a misdeed that He knew would happen after creating Humans. Here are a few the questions no theist has been able to formulate a coherent answer to: Why was a Human sacrifice necessary to win Jehovah's forgiveness? By exactly what mechanism does physical blood wipe away spiritual wrong-doing? What part of Jehovah's constitution prevented Him from simply accepting an apology on the part of any given Human?
imagine them being treated the same way Jesus has been treated
Oh, the same way y'all treat people who do not believe what you do, who are gay, etc?
God will allow people to suffer the consequences of rejecting the Son Who shed His blood for them.
Right, he killed himself to save us from himself. He is a blood-loving tyrant, and is not remotely deserving of any respect let alone love and worship.
And since you reject logic and reason, you can't come in my house.
I don't want to go to your god's house of evil, anyway. I don't hang around with pricks who commit genocide for the hell of it.
Apparently you are equivocating on the word "reject" (not believing that someone was a demigod is not the same as denying children access to your social groups).
And also the fact that God and Jesus are one in the same kind of blows your petty anthropocentric comparison out of the water.
When I look at guys like this it becomes more obvious why people become atheists.
Poor God, being represented by a bunch of pricks.
You failed to note one thing. You are not a god.And neither are your sons.
So, what was your point of comparison to your deity?
A more correct analogy would be you as god and your sons as humanity.
If one of your sons rejected something you believed in, no matter how trivial (such as... say...He's a Ford guy instead of a Chevy guy, or if you told him to kill his brother and he refused) would you chain him in the basement and let him starve almost to death, only giving him enough food and water to survive, for the rest of his life?
That's what your god is like.
In Reality, a strange and confusing place to you I know we have people who torture those who refuse to follow them.
We call these people tyrants and when caught they are tried for 'Crimes against humanity'. That is who your diety is comparable to.
People still say God should let people into Heaven because He's "supposed to be a forgiving God." Well, indeed He is...but forgiveness only comes through the Son these people reject.
So... he's not forgiving at all, is he? He just lets the people who suck up to him the most into his "special club" and burns the rest.
Such a lovely fellow, isn't he?
A better analogy would be if I was told of your sons by someone but never allowed to see them or any evidence of them and said I didn't believe they existed and then you tortured me forever.
How loving and forgiving.
Not letting some people into your house is not analogous to God not letting some people into Heaven. The people that are not let into your house just simply go away and do something else. Someone who doesn't get into Heaven goes to Hell, a place of eternal punishment. Clearly there is something that is very different between the two cases.
Hmm. So we're NOT all god's children after all, then? Well, frankly, that does explain your god's amoral stance towards mankind.
If "God is a Loving God" is True AND "God will punish you for rejecting him" is True, then you have just divided by zero, and collapsed the universe. Both of these statements cannot be simultaneously true, as a loving god would not torture you for a thousand or so years just for being *exactly* as he made you!
EDIT -- Someone please PM me on the forums, or send me an e-mail, telling me if this comment made any sense. I'm stoned, and have no clue what I typed.
I don't see how God can be God if he's as petty as the average person. Plus, he is the one who arranged for the whole 'saccrificing Jesus' thing.
Plus Jesus is supposed to be God, or whatever... Humans are supposed to be the 'children of God,' yeah?
I don't care how wonderful someone is by the world's standards...don't care how many good deeds they do...if they reject my sons, their big toe isn't getting through my door.
A better analogy would be if one of your own sons rejected you and went his own way in life, and your response was not simply to bar him from entering your house but also to throw him into a pit in your back yard, douse him with petrol and set him alight.
Well, here's the thing... *you* can be a righteous ass when someone 'rejects' your sons. Feel free, despite the fact that you fail as a human being. However, god, being supposedly perfect, cannot, seeing as how doing all the evil things that you attribute to him would make him very evil indeed and not perfect at all.
So, what about the way you fundie Christians treat Muhammad? What do you think Allah will do to the ones rejecting the words of his prophet?
We are around 6 billion people on this Earth. About 99.999% of those people I mostly ignore. That does not mean I hate them in any way, or reject their right to live, or something like that. They just don't play any part in my life.
That is basically the way I'd feel for Jesus too, if he was a real person.
Why wouldn't he? Answer this: why would anyone, deity or no, punish billions of people for ONE mistake ONE person made, thousands of years before the majority of those billions of people were even born? I never asked to be born. Why would God punish me for something I didn't choose, hmm?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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