You do realize that the Declaration of Independance, and The Constitution/Bill of Rights are also ACTUAL official government documents that state that this country IS a Christian nation?
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Well, how's this for a "government document"......
TREATY OF TRIPOLI, BITCH!
Obviously you have never even read either.
Mirror, mirror on the wall, which one of us is the most ignorant of all?
Lying for Jebus again, are we?
The DOI only makes reference to a generic Creator without specifying who or what that is. The Constitution makes no reference at all. In fact, the only two things the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that deal with religion are that a religious test cannot be required to hold office and that Congress cannot make any laws establishing or abridging the practice of religion.
A good deal of the Founding Fathers were Deist, by the way. Next time, do some research or take a civics class instead of parroting the crap your pastor spews.
"Obviously you have never even read either."
How ... how do you expect them to, you know, READ that?
"You do realize that the Declaration of Independance, and The Constitution/Bill of Rights are also ACTUAL official government documents that state that this country IS a Christian nation? "
"Just because it is a government document does not make it true or even senseable. "
Awesome. So, now that you've effectively negated your own argument, how 'bout if you STFU? KTHX.
Just for visual lol's
image
The Treaty of Tripoli is a fraud. Tripoli no longer exists as a sovereign nation; hence, the Treaty is invalidated. You cannot maintain a treaty with a non-existent nation, rendering the contents of the document irrelevant.
(@MessianicServant)
Ah, but even so, said Treaty was quite valid when it proclaimed the U.S.A. wasn't founded on Christianity ; the dissolution of Tripoli as a nation didn't suddenly change that fact. Remember, the United States existed as a non-Christian nation for several years prior to the Treaty of Tripoli; said Treaty merely stated what the USA's founders already knew, but the Barbary Moors didn't.
BTW, troll, why aren't you and your "Christian brothers" still giving Ones to all our quotes here? Put up or shut up, you waste of sperm!
@MessianicServant: "The Treaty of Tripoli is a fraud. Tripoli no longer exists as a sovereign nation; hence, the Treaty is invalidated. You cannot maintain a treaty with a non-existent nation, rendering the contents of the document irrelevant. "
Only as far as the specific terms of the treaty between the two (or more) nations goes.
The statement "As the government of United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion " is still absolutely valid, as the facts of the statement have in no way changed.
I love how they can glance over the Establishment Clause! I will say this again, as I have in other forums, if the founding fathers intended us to be run by the Bible, they would have written the freaking Constitution that way. But they didn't.
[...the Declaration of Independance, and The Constitution/Bill of Rights are also ACTUAL official government documents that state that this country IS a Christian nation?...Anyone who has ever read the DOI and the Constitution know that this country was founded on biblical principles.]
You are either lying or incredibly ignorant. Which is it?
[Obviously you have never even read either.]
OK. Suppose I haven't.
Help me out...show me where either document says the US is a Christian nation.
Way to rewrite history there Bryce.
1 the Declaration of Independence did not found the USA it was the declaration of the colonies breaking away from the British Empire. Also note that the Declaration was written by Thomas Jefferson a deist. Note creator is mentioned only in deist terms, eg. "nature and nature's god."
2 The Constitution and Bill of Rights which are our founding documents do not mention God, Jesus, the Bible or Christianity. Nor do they endorse any religion they instead establish our rights to freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Which is not contradictory but complementary.
3 Lastly if we play by your rule of "only qualification for a gov't document is that it came from any branch of governement" well then Treaty of Tripoli Bitch!
The Constitution and Bill of Rights say no such thing, and the Declaration of Independence was not a founding document and only mentioned a Deistic God. Prove that Biblical principles even had a negligible effect on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Go on. Give it a shot. I am ready for a good laugh.
Ok, there should be two rating systems on FSTDT. One for fundieism, and one for stupidity. Because while some quotes may not be that fundy, they certaintly are that blisteringly stupid.
"Anyone who has ever read the DOI and the Constitution know that this country was founded on biblical principles."
Anyone who has ever read the DOI and the Constitution knows that you're an ignorant blowhard and an a**hole.
Um guys, Tripoli is the capital of Libya.
IIRC, the "Treaty of Paris" formally ended the Revolutionary war. The "Treaty of Versailles", WW1.
Jefferson was an avid student of philosophy and religions. He understood enough of the bible, that he removed the bad material (about 95%), leaving the pure[r] message of the man Jesus.
You will see precedent for the Constitution in many published philosophical works. What Jefferson's interpretation of the Christian message
The majority of the US population were and are Christians of one sort or another, but the Nation was never designed under the constraints of that flawed bible.
Keep repeating the "Christian nation" lie if you must. A million times, a billion times, it doesn't matter. A lie is still a lie. We have never claimed the bible as the defining document.
You're right, biblical principals.
The ones that are also common sense principals:
Wrong Bryce, obviously you have not read the Constitution. It is a totally secular document. The only mention of religion in the entire document is a NEGATIVE one, NOT allowing religion to be a factor in the hiring of government employees. The Bill of Rights seperates government and religion, keeping both the hell out of each others business. The Declaration of Independence talks about a "Creator" which specifically is vague to cover any God or Gods or nature itself. You should read things before making a fool of yourself by insulting others and showing your own ignorance Bryce.
"You do realize that the Declaration of Independance, and The Constitution/Bill of Rights are also ACTUAL official government documents that state that this country IS a Christian nation?"
I defy you to find the word "Christian" in any of those documents. A vague reference to a nebulous "Creator" isn't going to cut it. I want "Christian" or "Jesus" mentioned directly.
Take your time, I'll wait. Call up the National Archives and ask them to give the documents a good once over if you need help. I'm sure they could use a laugh.
"Besides, the only qualifications for a "government document" is that it came from any branch of the government. Even most people in the government say that there are too many documents floatting around that either make no sense, or they don't have anything to do with anything. Just because it is a government document does not make it true or even senseable."
It does when it's either a founding document of the government or one in which you are describing your country to a foreign power (I didn't read the thread but I assume this is all about the Treaty of Tripoli).
"Anyone who has ever read the DOI and the Constitution know that this country was founded on biblical principles. Obviously you have never even read either."
I've read both. I owned copies of them at one time. I believe it's you that needs to reread them.
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -James Madison
You do realize that the Declaration of Independance, and The Constitution/Bill of Rights are also ACTUAL official government documents that state that this country IS a Christian nation?
You do realize the the DoI is not an official government document of the United States. The DoI is nothing more than a "dear john" letter to King George. It is a Declaration of the Independence of the british colonies in America, It does not create a government, it does not create the united states, and it was not issued by any government, but rather a collection of patriots across the colonies. The US constitution was written over a decade later after the the Articles of Confederation was cast aside. The only reference to religion was the establisment clause, the dating of the document could in no way be construed as establishing a christian nation as it was the common method of dating documents of any kind in those days.
Anyone who has ever read the DOI and the Constitution know that this country was founded on biblical principles.
See above
Obviously you have never even read either
I think it's clearly obvious that one of us has read them and one of us has not , Care to guees which one is which?
And for good measure... Treaty of Tripoli motherfucker did you read it? Also Messeanic servant, I'll play nice here.... Please go and fuck yourself
"You do realize that the Declaration of Independance, and The Constitution/Bill of Rights are also ACTUAL official government documents that state that this country IS a Christian nation? "
You do realise that you have to ACTUALLY read a document to know what's in it?
Search query: "Christian nation," exact phrase search
Searching Declaration of Independence...
Searching U.S. Constitution...
Searching all amendments to U.S. Constitution...
Searching the head of Mr. Ferguson...
Treaty of Tripoli, Art. 11.
The Declaration is not, and was never intended to be, the basis of our government. Our government was not formed until 13 years later when the Constitution was ratified and became effective in 1789.
Pissed on your firework.
No, no, no, no, nonononononononononooooooooooooooo! This has been answered so many times, how can you be this dense?!?
I have read them, repeatedly. And you are clearly demonstrating that you have not. I suggest you try it sometime.
Lying for Jesus is still lying.
M.S., that makes as much sense as "the Treaty of (the non-existent nation of) Paris" or "the Treaty of (the non-existent nation of) Versailles." Comments like that just make you sound like a moron (I realize that is nothing new for you).
Whether or not that treaty is still in force (which I think is the point you are trying to make) has no effect whatsoever on the fact that it is a document from shortly after the founding of our nation--signed, no less, by one of the main "Founding Fathers," John Adams--which flatly states that the USA was NOT, in spite of the attempts of you fundy revisionists, founded as a Christian nation. It doesn't imply it, mind you, but states it in so many words: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
The validity (or lack thereof) of the treaty in question does not in any way negate that flat declaration that this nation is not, was not, and never was intended to be "a Christian nation." You can wipe your ass with a copy of the treaty every day and twice on Sundays, and it still won't change that.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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