Home Archives Random Quotes Latest Comments Top 100 Submit Quote Search Log In

Quote# 46169

[Life does not begin at conception]

The sperm is already alive.
The egg is already alive.

When they unite, life CONTINUES.

We don't have life from non life; hence, life does not begin at conception.

Now, it has human dna; therefore, its NATURE is human.

If it is not human, then what is it?

If it is not human, then when does it become human?

If it becomes human at some point, what constituted a change in nature?

If its nature changed from non human to human, what is the differentiation that defines it as human?

Think. Let's suppose there is a person who was in a bad car accident, who is in a coma, lost his arms and legs, is on a breathing machine, cannot communicate, has a catheter, and must be cared for because he cannot sustain his own life.

Is that person human? Of course he is. Humanness is more than arms and legs, more than mere consciousness, more than merely breathing. There is something more, something different, something 'human' that defines its nature.

This nature is possessed by the old people.
This nature is possessed by middle aged people.
This nature is possessed by adults.
This nature is possessed by adolescents.
This nature is possessed by children.
This nature is possessed by babies.
This nature is possessed by that which lives in the womb of the mother.

If what is alive in the womb is NOT human, then it must be okay to transfer it to the womb of a ***** (female dog). There shouldn't be any problem, because its nature is not human.

But, that'd be stupid, wrong, immoral.

Well, pro deathers, those who advocate destroying the helpless life in the womb of the mother, those who promote killing the innocent, tells us what the nature of the life in the womb is at say.... 6 weeks. If it isn't human, then tell us what it IS, not what it is NOT!

If you can't, then step out of the argument and repent of your sin against God for your murderous position.

Matt Slick, CARM 55 Comments [8/30/2008 7:00:38 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
WTF?! || meh
Username:
Comment:



1 2 3
Painful

"The sperm is already alive."


(All together now...)

*singing* Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good...

8/30/2008 7:02:02 PM

Bobington

I might actually agree with the first 3 lines.

8/30/2008 7:02:42 PM

Sisyphus

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby round round round round....er, sorry, reading that made my head spin.

Also, until you develop a uterus Matt then STFU and leave the abortion issue alone!

8/30/2008 7:07:58 PM

Danny Noonan

"Think. Let's suppose there is a person who was in a bad car accident, who is in a coma, lost his arms and legs, is on a breathing machine, cannot communicate, has a catheter, and must be cared for because he cannot sustain his own life."

A vegetable.

8/30/2008 7:10:16 PM

343panic

I think the word you're looking for is fetus.

I consider myself very 'left' but being a pro-lifer with the exceptions of rape, and danger to the mother's life.

However, arguments like this make me want to slap people.

Is he really trying to say that life does not begin conception, but rather before it? Considering every sperm and every egg human just because it contains half a sequence of human DNA is like saying every singe living cell in a human containing human DNA is itself, human.


8/30/2008 7:11:17 PM

wut?

Why does god kill millions of lives (sperm) every time one has sex? Why does God kill one life a month in every woman (egg, menstruation etc.)?

ARGUMENT FAIL!

8/30/2008 7:18:47 PM

besides

Besides.

Eggs and Sperm contain only HALF of the DNA. So, no, not even under your criteria is this argument even resembling to "solid".

8/30/2008 7:20:12 PM

Rat of Steel

*groans as he sees Matt Sick barking out more of his misogynistic venom*

You again?!

All right, "slick". Since you're actually willing to have a Q&A session with us, I have some questions for you.

If you're so dead-set (pardon the pun) on seeing a fetus count as a live human being throughout all 9 months of a mother's pregnancy...

...why aren't you pro-birthers lobbying for a change in the common language used to refer to fetuses? Specifically, if a woman is currently raising a son and a daughter, and becomes pregnant again, why is she considered to have "two kids, with one on the way" as opposed to simply being "mother of three"?

...why aren't you pro-birthers lobbying for fetuses to be counted as citizens during the official government census held each decade?

...why aren't you pro-birthers lobbying for one year (yes, I know pregnancy typically takes 9 months instead of 12, but since we're dealing with massive bereaucracy, it's best to keep the math simple) to be deducted from all minimum age requirements imposed by federal, state, and local governments, such that people born 15 years ago can have driver's licences, those born 17 years ago can vote, enlist in the military, watch/star in porn, etc. and those born 20 years ago can indulge in some booze and Blackjack at a casino?

...finally, why aren't you lobbying for the full gamut of human rights for people AFTER they are born, as opposed to mindlessly repeating the Orwellian mathematical "truth" I mentioned to one of your fellow pro-birthers that "9 > 216"?

Answer those questions for me, then we'll talk about the true nature of embryos and fetuses.

BTW, GreenEyedLilo, here's another quote you might want to save for T-shirt purposes:

"If men were the ones getting pregnant, abortion would not be a sacrilege, but a sacrament."

8/30/2008 7:23:07 PM

RavenWood

You just made every ejaculation and mensturation cycle murder.

Nice slippery slope.

8/30/2008 7:25:54 PM

aaa

Slick, you ain't.

8/30/2008 7:32:36 PM

BreeStar

Notice it always seems to be MEN making these claims. Not a single one of them would stop and consider for a moment what it would be like to have to carry a huge weight around for nine months that they explicitly intend to give to somebody else.

8/30/2008 7:35:56 PM

Horsefeathers

"The sperm is already alive.
The egg is already alive.

When they unite, life CONTINUES.

We don't have life from non life; hence, life does not begin at conception."


According to your Babble, specifically Leviticus 17:11, life is in the blood. Who am I supposed to believe, you or the "infallible Word of Gawd"?

"Now, it has human dna; therefore, its NATURE is human."

This is rather circular and very stupid.

"If it is not human, then what is it?"

A clump of cells smaller than the head of a pin. You kill more cells by sneezing than is contained in a blastocyst.

"If it is not human, then when does it become human?"

I don't know the exact medical time frame but it doesn't even become a fetus until somewhere around the 8th-11th week. My guess would be that it would then be considered "human" rather than simply "cells".

"If it becomes human at some point, what constituted a change in nature?"

Development of the heart, hands, feet, brain, other organs and rudimentary movement of the chest to stimulate growth of the lungs. At least I would assume that would cause a change in definition.

"If its nature changed from non human to human, what is the differentiation that defines it as human?"

Morphology.

"
Think. Let's suppose there is a person who was in a bad car accident, who is in a coma, lost his arms and legs, is on a breathing machine, cannot communicate, has a catheter, and must be cared for because he cannot sustain his own life.

Is that person human? Of course he is."


True. But that person had already attained "human" status prior to that. A clump of cells is not "human" by any standard but those someone such as yourself arbitrarily imposes on it.

"Humanness is more than arms and legs, more than mere consciousness, more than merely breathing. There is something more, something different, something 'human' that defines its nature.

This nature is possessed by the old people.
This nature is possessed by middle aged people.
This nature is possessed by adults.
This nature is possessed by adolescents.
This nature is possessed by children.
This nature is possessed by babies.
This nature is possessed by that which lives in the womb of the mother."


Define it then.

"If what is alive in the womb is NOT human, then it must be okay to transfer it to the womb of a ***** (female dog). There shouldn't be any problem, because its nature is not human."

No, no problem other than biomedical ethics. I assume it covers such things as attempting to impregnate species in such a way. It also wouldn't work for various biological reasons so I'm not sure what such an act would accomplish.

"But, that'd be stupid, wrong, immoral."

Stupid because it wouldn't work and you'd learn nothing. Wrong simply because you say so apparently and "immoral" for the same reason. None of this is very compelling.

"Well, pro deathers, those who advocate destroying the helpless life in the womb of the mother, those who promote killing the innocent, tells us what the nature of the life in the womb is at say.... 6 weeks. If it isn't human, then tell us what it IS, not what it is NOT!"

It is defined medically as a blastocyst, as I mentioned, up until the 8th-11th week. It is not a fetus, baby, "innocent life" or any other hyperbolic sentimental bullshit you want to try to describe it as.

"If you can't, then step out of the argument and repent of your sin against God for your murderous position."

Kiss my ass you ignorant fuck. You don't even know the first fucking thing about what you're arguing about. You've taken up your crusade to be accepted into your little fundy club and to feel like you're doing something meaningful rather than because you actually care about the issue.

8/30/2008 7:45:46 PM

Panz

no, it has the potential to become human...or a big red mess in a toilet bowl by natural causes.

And this man, that became a torso and can not function on his own and will need people waiting on him constantly, what kind of a life is that?
I dunno about you, but i'd let the guy go...I thought doctors playing god like that was against christian beliefs...oh, except when you use it as the small anchor to your rants, gotcha

8/30/2008 7:49:08 PM

SWGM

This guy's quickly becoming my favorite fundie. More anti-choice rhetoric all around!

8/30/2008 7:58:50 PM

Sweet Violet

"Let's suppose there is a person who was in a bad car accident, who is in a coma, lost his arms and legs, is on a breathing machine, cannot communicate, has a catheter, and must be cared for because he cannot sustain his own life."

We pull the plug.

8/30/2008 8:04:23 PM



Dear Matt, you are a dolt. Rent the movie or read the book, "Johnny Got his Gun", then think about your stupid fucking analogy about the paraplegic in a (supposed) coma(if you can think). Also, check with people like me who have a living will to save our families heartache and crippling expense.

8/30/2008 8:14:12 PM

Old Viking.

Human status is gained when all neural pathways are formed and the brain is functioning. Until then the organism in utero has no moral or legal standing as a human.

8/30/2008 8:29:54 PM

LAchlan

oh no! I did a billion murders last night!

8/30/2008 8:51:03 PM

Rix

Are eggs and sperm alive? They can't carry out any of the functions associated with life (eating, growing, etc...). At least not on thier own.

8/30/2008 8:55:27 PM

Snopester in Exile

He was going good, but I know he would come to a totally unsupported conclusion, and he didn't disappoint.

8/30/2008 9:24:22 PM



Wait, are you telling me that menstruation is murder?. It's the death of an egg, in case you're wondering.

8/30/2008 9:44:08 PM

IanC

I murdered a few million (or is it billion?) earlier then. Felt gooood.

8/30/2008 9:46:31 PM

Fishcakes

So every time I have a period, I'm committing mass murder. I did not know that.

@Sweet Violet: I wonder if the hypothetical coma guy would actually be blinking "kill me" in Morse Code.

8/30/2008 10:01:37 PM

Jay-Sus

There's more fail here than you can shake a fail stick at.

8/30/2008 10:35:31 PM

Shann

If what is alive in the womb is NOT human, then it must be okay to transfer it to the womb of a ***** (female dog).

Dr. Mengele...is that you?

8/30/2008 10:49:52 PM
1 2 3