Quote# 471

Seems to me Christianity brought Western Europe out of the Dark Ages into the High Middle Ages.

dk, Internet Infidels 23 Comments [9/1/2002 12:00:00 AM]
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and then atheism brought us to modern days.

10/26/2006 9:51:10 PM

David D.G.

I'd say it's closer to the truth that civilization advanced in spite of religion, rather than because of it.

~David D.G.

10/26/2006 10:08:58 PM

count zapolai

Well... the proliferation (at least politicisation) of Christianity in Europe patently predated the 'Dark Ages', i.e. after the 330 CE edict of Constantine, while the common date given for the start of the 'Dark Ages' is the end of the Western Empire in 476 CE. So it would make as much sense to say that the 'Dark Ages' were, in themeselves, a pretty swift response to Christianity.

As for 'High Middle Ages', the term usually refers to development of monarchies on a national scale, e.g. Capetian France, Norman England in the eleventh century, rather than any particular cultural change.

I'd guess the poster actually refers to the Renaissence, which, here comes the shit-storm, is usually held to be associated with Classical Greek and Medieval Arabic learning, and often Christian Humanism too, from the 15th Century.

It's all woefully outdated and oversimplified as history goes, but I'd thought put an end to arguements along these lines. As a historian, I've got to say theres admirably less religious fundamentalism in the field than in science. Nationalism takes it's place. But hey, might as well shoot these guys in the foot before they do it themselves.

5/29/2007 2:20:53 PM


Or not. Try religious freedom and end of the dark ages, and you'll have a correct statement.

God I love the Dutch. :) They make me want to blow kisses into the past some centuries.

3/10/2008 2:03:36 PM


Explain why the Dark Ages coincided with the spread of Christianity to Europe, then we'll talk.

3/10/2008 2:10:50 PM


I wouldn't have described the Enlightenment as being a particularly religious experience.
Oddly I'd have said that it was moving away from that stuff and discovering natural sciences and manufacturing that ended the dark ages.

3/11/2008 7:32:36 AM


Well, at the time monasteries were behind most scientific discoveries. But they were few and far between.

After all, the religious age is characterized by a scientific standstill.

3/11/2008 9:29:27 AM


In turn, rationalism and science brought us from there to the MODERN age.

3/11/2008 1:00:04 PM


What history books do you have? Must be from the great creationism state of Kansas...No Evolution or Truth Allowed.

3/11/2008 1:11:58 PM


No, Christianity was extremely prominent during the Dark Ages. We have the Muslims to thank for preserving most of the knowledge that otherwise would have been lost.

3/11/2008 2:56:23 PM



3/11/2008 3:58:01 PM


My history books say you're wrong.
What was the Age of Enlightenment?

3/11/2008 4:06:59 PM


Thinking and education are the bane of religion as much as religion is the bane of progress. Religions can only foster upon the ignorance of the masses that follow them.

3/11/2008 4:25:01 PM


No. That was the beginnings of secular thought that did that, as soon as people like Copernicus started to question the doctrines of the Church that's when the Dark Ages ended and the Renaissance began.

All scientific progress has been against the wishes of religion which would like people to remain ignorant of the way the world really works so they will continue to believe religious nonsense.

And all social progress towards freedom has also been against the wishes of religion which doesn't want people to have notions of being free because then they might realize that they are better off without the oppressive hand of a church.

3/11/2008 4:43:00 PM

Caustic Gnostic

Seems to me the progressive thinkers had to tell the holy demagogues to fuck off before the Renaissance could grow.

I didn't know until recently that Copernicus was a priest as well as a polymath.

3/11/2008 6:50:31 PM


Christianity actually fell under the rules of kings more and more, then a balance showed up and they shared power. Christians commanded armies and kings in the dark age and the people eventually turned to royalty more.

Good thing, as kings wanted educated people more than the church. to a larger limit anyway. Kingdoms sponsored exploration and study against the wishes of the church

It's not like our systems perfect but we are better off without them both

3/12/2008 7:52:20 PM


Seems to me you're just making shit up.

9/13/2011 3:35:13 PM


Dude, Christianity CAUSED the Dark Ages.

9/20/2011 10:38:52 AM



Yesh, we won a war against Spain for religious freedom! woohoo! we f*king rule!

4/18/2012 12:27:26 PM

Seems to me Christianity brought Western Europe out of the Dark Ages into the High Middle Ages.

Christianity was actually a coup de grace (or disgrace, in this particular case) to the already dwindling Greco-Roman period of philosophical enlightenment.

Afterwards came a period of intellectual darkness in which the church burnt a whole lot of books of ancient knowledge and research gathered over thousands of years, priceless works of art deemed "heretic" in nature, not to mention executing countless artists, scholars, researchers, historians, inventors and anyone else who showed even a glimmer of original thought. The devastation inflicted upon the collective human intellect by Christianity in that period remains, to this day, unprecedented. And yet, the followers of Christ were just getting warmed up; what came afterwards was an era of bloodshed, genocide and mass-murder (civil wars, crusades, the inquisitions) that would make the likes of Caligula and Nero tremble with terror.

Even to this day the whole world is held back by you religious nutcakes. If it wasn't for that swine Abraham and his ilk, humanity would have already overcame 99% of all the known diseases, war would have been abolished, along with famine and perhaps even death (from aging, at least). You are a cancer upon the very heart of humanity, and I fear that the damage you have already caused over the past couple of thousands of years would probably end up being the root cause of human extinction.

And yet, here you are...

4/18/2012 2:15:24 PM


And then a homosexual atheist brought you the computer that you wrote that rubbish on.

Isn't (real) life grand?

4/18/2012 11:54:24 PM


You will be amazed how your perspective will change when you actually learn something

4/19/2012 5:33:12 AM


Uh, it's just a wee bit more complicated than that.

9/2/2012 9:26:51 AM

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