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Quote# 49909

So let me get this straight. You won't believe in God, what proof do you need?

You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)

you won't believe people's personal testimonies

you won't believe in people's near death expierences

you won't be in miracles

you won't believe that the complexity of our planet, universe, and even our own bodies is proof of a creater (even when we have not searched the entireity of space, or can drill to center of our own planet, and science has been wrong in the past, you will not admit that).

you just have a rebuttle and an answer to everything, no matter how logical it sounds or not.

So what proof do you need to believe in God?

It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect. What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes. If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right??

That's where sin comes in, and the problems in our own lives are because we live in a perfect world. If you don't want to believe in God, fine, no one can force you, but stop ignoring the facts and having childish answers to everything I listed above. Just be honest about why you don't want to follow God. The purpose of knowing God is having a personal relationship with Him!

The Red Aaron, Yahoo Answers 51 Comments [10/17/2008 9:22:44 PM]
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Submitted By: CaseAgainstFaith
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Smith

"It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect."

That's about all that would do it.

10/17/2008 9:28:56 PM

wackadoodle

Hes all-fucking-powerful, he could have golden penguins fly around my head singing hymnns and not use the slightest bit of his time or power.

10/17/2008 9:29:41 PM

Eden

Well, I would say it is more difficult to believe in the bible, with its many passages that contradict science and common sense, than it is to believe in some form of divine entity.

10/17/2008 9:33:24 PM

anonymous

How do you copy letter by letter from Hebrew to English?
And how does that automatically make it credible?
And how would you even know? Writing was so rare in the age of the Bible you could have replaced the whole thing with a garbled mess of stupid and people would still .. believe.. it. OH WAIT.

Testimonies, NDEs, and 'miracles' are frequently the result of either bullshit, incorrect memories, or a lack of understanding of what is really going on. Or worse, totally unfounded rumors passed on because people think it's okay to lie for Jesus.

Of course science has been wrong in the past. however, there is no compelling evidence for God's existence, so as far as we can tell, we don't need to change our stance on that.

"So what proof do you need to believe in God?"

I want to personally come down in the form of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, cure world hunger, miraculously cap the world's population at the current numbers, reduce birth rates to prevent any given couple from having more than 2 children, and give me a nice electric bicycle or sports car to remind me of His existence.

I think any of these, even individually, is not too much to ask of an omnipotent deity who supposedly loves us. Yet God produces no such miracles, ever. The only exist in ancient records that are ultimately based on a misunderstanding of reality.

"If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right??"

Well I've made my life pretty good. If God doesn't do anything at all, I will assume he doesn't exist. If he's there, he should at least do something. I mean, if He exists, He is perfectly aware of my situation, and if He really wants me to believe in Him, he should be able to cook up a good, solid miracle so I won't go to Hell.

10/17/2008 9:34:21 PM

D Laurier

I dont want a gOd to fly out of heaVeN, land on my doorstep, and make my life perfect.... But if you could actualy show me a goD.... that would be acceptable evidence for the existance of a god.

10/17/2008 9:37:26 PM

cool cats

I don't want a perfect life, but I would like some real evidence


If amputees would start regrowing limbs when prayed for, you might have something there.

10/17/2008 9:38:03 PM

approximate

What proof do I need?

Have him show up at my place tonight at 8:00. I'll make coffee and we'll talk. (better to do this sober) If he demands that I worship him, he'll be shown the door.

10/17/2008 9:42:25 PM



It's pretty sad that when you see "Yahoo Mental Ward", you know they're talking about Yahoo Answers. :P

10/17/2008 9:46:14 PM

The Jamo

Personally I'd just settle for god discussing some things with me over lunch. Do you think he could do that?

10/17/2008 9:49:29 PM

Agnostic Antagonist

"It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect. What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes."

If he loves me unconditionally, why hasn't he already done this?

10/17/2008 9:59:14 PM

Thinking Allowed

It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect. What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes. If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right??

Isn't this the fundie way?

10/17/2008 10:01:21 PM

Pagnostic

Question deleted already, voted meh.

10/17/2008 10:16:36 PM

Old Viking

Historical, religious, etymological and linguistic analyses of the Bible have been going on for well over 200 years now.
Is value lies in its role as an example of the literature of a particular time and culture. It is no more the "word of God" than my well known short story, "Randy Hardstaff and the Excitable Blondes."

Personal testimonies are worthless as proof of anything.

Near death experiences are your synapses firing erratically as they are deprived of oxygen. Do you find it curious that the religious figure seen in NDEs depends entirely upon the religion you were brought up in?

Complexity proves complexity, nothing more. Further, the foremost characteristic of good design is simplicity, not complexity. Our complex bodies, for example, are pretty much what you could expect from a hit-or-miss, I'll-get-it-right-the-next-time sort of process like ... oh, I don't know ... maybe evolution.

10/17/2008 10:26:25 PM

Mister Spak

You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)

The koran has countless manuscripts copied letter by letter. Why do you not believe it?

you won't believe people's personal testimonies

You're talking about the personal testimonies of muslims, right?


you won't believe in people's near death expierences

People who have those usually don't describe your god of sadism and willful stupidity.

you won't be in miracles "

You mean like when Mohammed split the moon?

"you just have a rebuttle and an answer to everything, no matter how logical it sounds or not."

If that means we correct your errors every time you open your mouth and head exploding stupid comes out, yes we do.

"It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep,and make your life perfect. What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes. If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right?? "

It sounds like you're about to admit you have no proof.

"That's where sin comes in, and the problems in our own lives are because we live in a perfect world. If you don't want to believe in God, fine, no one can force you, but stop ignoring the facts and having childish answers to everything I listed above."

And there you are!

"Just be honest about why you don't want to follow God. "

Still waiting for that proof . . .


10/17/2008 10:56:40 PM

Mayhem

"So let me get this straight. You won't believe in God, what proof do you need?"

The Empirical kind.

"You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)"

There are also countless copies of the Harry Potter novels, copied letter by letter, and even more accurately, since my English copies are in the same language as the original.

"you won't believe people's personal testimonies"

There were a number of soldiers in ancient Greece who claimed that they saw Ares and Athena appear in battle with them. Does that make the Greek gods real?

"you won't believe in people's near death expierences"

No more than I would believe the truth of someone's dreams, considering that the mental states are roughly the same.

"you won't be in miracles"

Seeing is believing.

"you won't believe that the complexity of our planet, universe, and even our own bodies is proof of a creater (even when we have not searched the entireity of space, or can drill to center of our own planet, and science has been wrong in the past, you will not admit that)."

I do believe in the complexity of the universe. That has nothing to do with there being a creator.

"you just have a rebuttle and an answer to everything, no matter how logical it sounds or not."

I hear little logic in the arguements. It's not hard to rebutt that.

"So what proof do you need to believe in God?

It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect. What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes. If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right??"

That would about do it, yes.

"That's where sin comes in, and the problems in our own lives are because we live in a perfect world. If you don't want to believe in God, fine, no one can force you, but stop ignoring the facts and having childish answers to everything I listed above. Just be honest about why you don't want to follow God. The purpose of knowing God is having a personal relationship with Him!"

Our world is hardly perfect, and not because of humans. Disease, natural disasters, etc. These would not exist if the world were perfect.

10/17/2008 11:14:38 PM

John

You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)

Anyone can write a book. What does that prove?

you won't believe people's personal testimonies

How about Mohamed's personal testimony? Or Joseph Smith's? Or Charles Taze Russell's? Are all of them right?

you won't believe in people's near death expierences

There are two problems: a, they can't be verified by anyone else; and b, the brain can come up with all sorts of stuff when it has been electrocuted, stunned, deprived of oxygen, filled with drugs, and all the other things that cause near-death experiences.

you won't be[lieve] in miracles

Too many have been fraudulent to accept them without a grain of salt; and many are within the realm of natural explanation. Besides, with all the things God could be doing to help humanity, most reported miracles have been pretty trivial.

you won't believe that the complexity of our planet, universe, and even our own bodies is proof of a creater ...

Science has reasonable alternatives that don't require intervention of a creator. In any event, proving the former existence of a creator or creators wouldn't prove the existence of the biblical God.

10/17/2008 11:23:34 PM

a mind far far away

I was going to refrain from posting a reply to this, but I think I'm going to anyway.

1. You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)

Simply correctly copying what someone else wrote does not automatically mean the text is correct. Just look at the works of Homer.

2. you won't believe people's personal testimonies

This only goes so far as the person is trustworthy and competent, with no mental distractions. Many people have testified to seeing the Loch Ness Monster, but that doesn't mean it's real.

3. you won't believe in people's near death expierences

Alot of Christians don't even accept the idea that NDE's are from God. The fact that the person came to life mean's that it's very possible that what people see in NDE's are simply mental proceses, having nothing to do with death or the afterlife.

4. you won't be in miracles

Miracles are only important if they can be authentically verified as miracles. The crap Benny Hinn and the rest of th TBN cronies pull out of their butts are not the best indicators of the divine presence.

5. you won't believe that the complexity of our planet, universe, and even our own bodies is proof of a creater (even when we have not searched the entireity of space, or can drill to center of our own planet, and science has been wrong in the past, you will not admit that).

First, cloning. Complexity does not automatically equal intelligent creator. Science normally tends to get better with age (like a good wine :D ), and just because there are things yet to be uncovered by science, does not make what science tells us today false, just incomplete.

6. you just have a rebuttle and an answer to everything, no matter how logical it sounds or not.

Having an answer to everything is the whole purpose and point of defending one's position. Christians do the same with theirs "no matter how logical it sounds or not". The problem here with the logic is the "or not" clause. Which point sounds more logical? Logic is what begins the mental and intelligent proceses working.

So what proof do I need that God exists? Mystical experience helps, although it normally includes rites that presuppose one already believes in the desired outcome and basic tenets of the particular system. So even this is not enough. Since I already believe in the existence of the divine, I simply need some sort of assurance, other than your personal interpretation of what the Bible says, that your point of view is correct, and I have never seen any thus far. Buddhism, however, seems to be a pretty good system. A good mix of the mystical and logical (for every 1 claim Muslims have of something scientific being in the Koran, no matter how distorted it seems, Buddhism has 10 that can be backed up.)

10/17/2008 11:26:56 PM

Horsefeathers

"So let me get this straight. You won't believe in God, what proof do you need?"

Something more credible than unsubstantiated anecdotal accounts from a bunch of ignorant Bronze Age goat herders of two thousand years ago I'm afraid.

"You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)"

Letter by letter you say? How do you know since we don't actually have the original manuscripts and those we do have are rife with inconsistencies?

"you won't believe people's personal testimonies"

Subjective evidence is meaningless. Doubly so when every religious person on the planet claims such things and they're all praying to a different deity.

"you won't believe in people's near death expierences"

Again, subjective. And easily explained with our current understanding of how the brain works and what happens to it upon death.

"you won't be in miracles"

There are no events that have been verified scientifically as such.

"you won't believe that the complexity of our planet, universe, and even our own bodies is proof of a creater (even when we have not searched the entireity of space, or can drill to center of our own planet, and science has been wrong in the past, you will not admit that)."

Just because something is "complex" does not mean it cannot arise naturally, nor that it needs something "more complex" to create it. Ever heard of crystals (which arise naturally) or fractals (which come from fairly simple mathematics yet produce astoundingly "complex" patterns)?

"you just have a rebuttle and an answer to everything, no matter how logical it sounds or not."

We have a rebuttal to everything because you people have been using the same fucking arguments for two thousand years (or more if you include every other religion).

"So what proof do you need to believe in God?"

Incontrovertible evidence. And no, I wont elaborate. Your deity is omnipotent; such a task should not be beyond its capabilities.

"It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect. What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes. If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right??"

I want no such thing. I want undeniable evidence your deity, and yours alone, exists. However it chooses to do so is up to it.

[b]"That's where sin comes in, and the problems in our own lives are because we live in a perfect world."[b/]

You think this world is perfect? You have terribly low standards, don't you?

"If you don't want to believe in God, fine, no one can force you, but stop ignoring the facts and having childish answers to everything I listed above."

If they're childish then refute them. We refute yours for that very same reason.

"Just be honest about why you don't want to follow God. The purpose of knowing God is having a personal relationship with Him!"

I don't follow a god because I don't see any evidence that any exist.

10/17/2008 11:30:25 PM

M.M.

what proof do you need?

LULZ! I stopped reading after this.

10/17/2008 11:45:27 PM

CT

So what proof do you need to believe in God?

Well...

It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven,

Yes!

land on your doorstep,

YES!

and make your life perfect.

YE..... no. How about just turning up and showing he exists? No need for everything to be perfect, since that's my own personal idea of what Hell would be like. If he'd just show that he exists, I'd be happy.

What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes.

Hmm... sounds like something I've read somewhere. What was it...? Oh yes... "Whatsoever you ask in my name, shall be done"


Jesus... The Personal Genie!

10/17/2008 11:46:27 PM

tracer

"You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)"


Copied letter-by-letter, you say?

That means all historical copies of New Testament manuscripts in Greek should be identical.

So, then -- what's the Number of the Beast? 666, or 616?

10/17/2008 11:59:00 PM

Papabear

"So let me get this straight. You won't believe in God,"

I'm happy to believe in the existence of God or any other supernatural being or occurence just as soon as an adequate amount credible evidence supporting such assertions is produced. As of now, none has been produced.


"what proof do you need?"

Credible, public, scientifically produced, reproducable test results which leave no other possibility other than the existence of God. Not the personal visions, dreams, "I just know" kind of crap you folks have produced thus far.


"You won't believe in what the Bible says (even tho there are countless manuscripts that were copied letter by letter)"

The number of copies is irrelevant. Michael Jackson's lyrics are no more true because they occur of millions of CDs.


"you won't believe people's personal testimonies"

Nope. Curiously enough, some people lie. Even some Christians.


"you won't believe in people's near death expierences"

Nope. The mind under such stress cannot be trusted. And, of course, some people lie.


"you won't be in miracles"

Miracles don't exist. If something is impossible, it's impossible. If it happens, it is not impossible.


"you won't believe that the complexity of our planet, universe, and even our own bodies is proof of a creater (even when we have not searched the entireity of space, or can drill to center of our own planet, and science has been wrong in the past, you will not admit that).

I don't have to believe in nonsense just because not every millimeter of the universe has been explored,

I admit that science has been wrong in the past. Over and over and over, science has been wrong, but science corrects itself and moves along. Science is rarely VERY wrong. Most of the corrections are adjustments due to new, better evidence. Religion has been wrong from the start and stays that way not matter what the evidence shows.



"you just have a rebuttle and an answer to everything, no matter how logical it sounds or not."

When presented with nothing but nonsense, it's easy to have a rebuttal and an answer to every piece of nonsense presented. Very little in religion can be said to sound logical.


"So what proof do you need to believe in God?"

I think I covered that already.


"It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect."

That would be a damn good start.


"What you want is a personal genie, and have an unlimited ammount of wishes."

The Bible says that God will give me whatever I ask for.


"If God doesn't make your life perfect, there's no reason to believe in Him right??"

I didn't say that. I would accept credible, public, scientifically produced, reproducable test results which leave no other possibility other than the existence of God. His making my life perfect is not require, but it would be a nice gesture.


"That's where sin comes in, and the problems in our own lives are because we live in a perfect world."

Until you prove that God exists, there is no sin to yalk about.


"If you don't want to believe in God, fine, no one can force you,"

Thanks, but I really wasn;t waiting for your permission.


"but stop ignoring the facts"

Excuse me? Who is it who is ignoring the facts?


"and having childish answers to everything I listed above."

If you feel that logic, reason and critical thinking are childish, you are really in sad shape.


"Just be honest about why you don't want to follow God."

So, you feel you're qualified to proclaim to the world what and why I believe what I do? I don't think so. I don't think you're qualified to tend a tepid glass of water much less read other people's minds.


"The purpose of knowing God is having a personal relationship with Him!"

OK, now we're back to that part where God shows up on my doorstep.

10/18/2008 12:33:20 AM

Shadoboy

Condensed text:

"How can you not beleive in God? We have subjective testimonies and an old book!"

10/18/2008 12:36:33 AM

Allegory for Jesus

"It sounds like you want Him to fly out of Heaven, land on your doorstep, and make your life perfect."

That would be damn helpful, yes. And the least an omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omnipotent deity could do.

10/18/2008 12:45:36 AM

Amanda

I haven't seen any facts to ignore yet.

10/18/2008 12:55:00 AM
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