It isn't about butt sex, its about the nature of marriage itself. If people would stop using the pill the difference would be obvious. If marital law required a reason and carried justice in the event of a divorce, there would be no need to define marriage.
Marriage is societies way of attempting to get people to stay together for the benefit of their children. That is why gay folks are unfit for the system, because they can't have their own children... They get children from dramatic and desperate situations rather than through the conjugal embrace. It is preferable and good for society if the number and proportion of children born into these stable situations is maximized. It always has been.
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Huh. From all the quotes on this site I had the impression that it is _always_ about buttsex with you people...
Anyway.. How is gay people getting married alter the nature of marriage?
Can gay couples care and nurture for children? Yes, most definitely, there are countless examples. Will they regardless of if they get to celebrate their love to each other with a marriage ceremony or not? Yes.
Oh, and. Um. Fuck you. I hate these stupid fucking arguments. I'm tired of them.
"They get children from dramatic and desperate situations"
And without them those children would just stay in those dramatic and desperate situations. You're right, it's much better that way.
" It isn't about butt sex, "
Oh? Going by the MASSIVE amount of quotes on here mentioning "sodomy" id say it is, quite a bit, at least.
LESBIANS! THEY EXIST TOO!
And we can reproduce, too, honey. In vitro, or good old fashioned "Lie back and think of England." But we can reproduce.
If you look at the many children in abusive families, you would wish that they would rather be raised by a loving gay or lesbian couple, instead of their real parents.
Marriage is no longer what it used to be. Back when we were argicultural/merchantile societies with low survival rates and a mighty need for mass-birthing, marriage may have been used to lock together two people for the benefit of their demonspawn. But, today, there is no need for mass-birthing, and biological parents don't necessarily need to be the guardian of the newborn. Now, marriage is just a contract between two people, made out of love rather than political necessity or sexual needs (outside of your religion, that is) that confers legal benefits. And, preventing two people from getting those legal benefits due to the original usage of marriage circa the colonial era is rather pathetic.
1. What does the pill have to do with anything?
2. Marriage is a legal contract that has to do with finances.
3. A lesbian can get pregnant. A gay man can impregnate a woman through natural means or medical means.
4. You're a failtard.
If everything were different, then things would be different. Got it.
Well, since I'm living in reality rather than la la land, I'm perfectly happy with homosexual couples being recognized as married and opening up their arms to children that are in dramatic and desperate situations.
Yeah, it's much worse for kids to go to a very nice, well-off gay couple, rather than a couple of abusive fundie fanatics. That happens too, ya know - how come we never hear you buttheads denouncing that?
I have several gay friends, male and female, and they all have children. These children were all conceived the good ol' fashioned way. You see, the need to reproduce trumps sexuality.
BTW. Among those children, there isn't a one I wouldn't be proud to call my own.
"That is why gay folks are unfit for the system, because they can't have their own children."
Not biologically.
"It is preferable and good for society if the number and proportion of children born into these stable situations is maximized."
Well if you want children to be with stable families, give them to stable families.
The gender of the couple has nothing to do with stability, there's hetero couples that should not even be near children and same-sex couples who would be great with them.
@Lucilius: That's cause they don't think that kids going to abusive families is in anyway wrong... "Spare the rod" and all that drivel. The only thing that does trigger the whole abuse of children = wrong reaction with fundies is sexual abuse of boys. Girl children, well they were asking for it weren't they?
As for the original post: Why do I think that "If marital law required a reason and carried justice in the event of a divorce..." really means, "I don't want to pay child support or alimony"?
Do you honestly believe that a loveless, abusive and crumbling marriage is a stable situation for children? As someone whose straight parents are divorced, I can assure you that my life drastically improve after they separated. On the flip side, one of my friends -- who was adopted by a lesbian couple as a baby -- had a happy, fulfilling upbringing, and grew up to become a wonderful, well-adjusted person. Given the choice between having a "normal" mother-father family filled with conflict and an "abnormal" mother-mother or father-father family that loves one another, I'd choose the "abnormal" one.
How stable a family is has ziltch to do with the respective genders of the parents. It's whether or not the parents are able to love each other and their children that makes or breaks a family.
And are you seriously implying that adoption is somehow a bad thing? What about the millions of straight couples who have adopted a child, or have one via a surrogate? Should infertile couples be preventing from marrying too?
Yeah, that's what I thought. Just making more shit up to support your bullshit bigotry.
I don't think I could even start listing how this post of yours is the beginning of wrong on so many levels.
As for those 'dramatic desperate children', I am quite sure it was abusive hetero breeders that made most of them.
If people would stop using the pill the difference would be obvious. If marital law required a reason and carried justice in the event of a divorce, there would be no need to define marriage.
Straights please note where these control freaks would like to go once they nip same-sex marriage in the bud.
They get children from dramatic and desperate situations rather than through the conjugal embrace.
As opposed to the many straight couples who raise stepchildren, adopt, use sperm banks, or use surrogates.
They get children from dramatic and desperate situations
Many of them get children because society pressures them to conform and they marry someone of the opposite sex. Then the marriage fails - as it usually will when there's no sexual attraction - and there's a child to be taken care of.
By this reasoning, anyone who can't (or won't) reproduce is also unfit for marriage. Menopausal women, men with low sperm counts, anyone infertile for any medical reason, anyone who doesn't plan to have children- they should all be denied marriage licenses as well for the same reason.
Not fundie. Stupid, uses poor logic, but not fundie.
Let's remember what a fundie is, peeeps. This guy doesn't even attempt to (ab)use the Bible to justify his bigotry - therefore, not fundie.
I would still rather like to meet him in person someday, however - preferebly when my bf and I are just out of hte bedroom.
It isn't about butt sex
Yay! I can go back to having butt secks! Fated told me it was ok! :)
If people would stop using the pill the difference would be obvious
Unless there was some other way to prevent pregnancy... Maybe some kind of rubber device to act as a barrier for sperm...
Marriage is societies way of attempting to get people to stay together for the benefit of their children.
Is it? In my experience straight couples stay together out of love and mutual benefits. Much like gay couples.
That is why gay folks are unfit for the system, because they can't have their own children... They get children from dramatic and desperate situations rather than through the conjugal embrace.
Are people that adopt unfit for the "system" now as well?
1. If people stopped using the pill our birth rates would spiral out of control resulting in a society much like India where the sheer population means you cannot do anything...
2. No, Marriage is not a way of getting people to stay together for their children. Love is that. Marriages that fall apart are straight up detrimental to children's developments.
"If people would stop using the pill the difference would be obvious....Marriage is societies way of attempting to get people to stay together for the benefit of their children. ...It is preferable and good for society if the number and proportion of children born into these stable situations is maximized."
So, you think denying the ability to plan reproduction (especially for financial reasons and being prepared to commit to a life-long responsibility) and pressuring and manipulating people to remain married "for the sake of the children" that result despite compatibility creates a stable sitution to raise them in? HUH???
Actually I always understood "marriage" as a means to assign "value" to a woman as a possession. If she was raped, the guilty party would have to pay restitution in the amount of the "value" of the woman. Similar to the "value" of a daughter as put forth by the dowry practice. Remember, rape wasn't thought of as a crime until we established those two ideas.
But my sociology classes were over a decade ago. I *might* be wrong, but I'm certain you're an idiot.
Marriage was society's way of providing legal benefits for the wife and children being supported by a man. Now things have changed since lots of women work, but people still want that marriage bond and they need the legal benefits such as insurance, right to see your loved one in the hospital, make medical decisions, etc.
Contrary to what you idiot fundtards think, gay people CAN and DO have their own children. And lots of infertile straights adopt children born of "dramatic and desperate situations". AND that's none of your business. Nor is it your business if other people use birth control. Nor is it yours or anyone else's business if one spouse works and the other doesn't, or they both work, or people in a committed relationship choose to legalize it solely for the purposes of putting a spouse on the other one's insurance. IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. EVERYBODY GET THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS AND MIND YOUR OWN. Go get drunk, get laid, pop a pill, whatever it takes, but M.Y.O.B.
/rant
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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