For Atheists - why are we not gorillas!?
It's pretty late, and this isn't my most well thought out question ever, but this might shake the tree of some light-weights.
If evolution is supposed to constantly move organisms towards greater complexity and ability to survive. And if we decended from a common-ancestor like the gorillas. Then why aren't we like gorillas? I mean having the intelligence of a human in a gorilla body would be great. You'd be much stronger and more agile etc.
54 comments
For tristan - why are we not dirt?
This isn't a well thought out question, but asking you well thought out questions is casting pearls before swine.
"If evolution is supposed to constantly move organisms towards greater complexity and ability to survive."
Of gorillas and humans, which is an endangered species and which has 6 billion individuals? Didn't put much though into that question, didja? But then you fundies never do.
I'd assume the answer as to why we're weaker than gorillas (or even chimps) probably has something to do with our bipedalism.
Having gorilla strength would be pretty awesome, admittedly...
That's actually a legitimate question. The problem with it however is that the human brain requires a massive amount of energy. I don't think it would be a very fesiable to work towards higher brain activity and increased strength and agility. Some where down the evolutionary line, human ancestors went for increased brain activity and gorilla ancestors went for brute strength. Now that there are six billion humans and gorilla's are endangered, it appears that being smart enough to make a pointed stick is better then being strong enough to break rocks.
Would it? Remember, what gave humans their first competitive advantage (and both outlet and spur to intelligence) was our bipedal stance. That freed the hands to become much more useful. Forest-dwelling gorillas are not true bipeds - they didn't face the open savannah like protohumans did, and if they tried, they'd be easy to catch despite their great strength.
"It's pretty late, and this isn't my most well thought out question ever, but this might shake the tree of some light-weights."
It's worded as though he's just casually criticising evolution, like a minor troll or something...
For Atheists - why are we not gorillas!?
Different DNA.
If evolution is supposed to constantly move organisms towards greater complexity...
WRONG!
And if we decended from a common-ancestor like the gorillas. Then why aren't we like gorillas? I mean having the intelligence of a human in a gorilla body would be great. You'd be much stronger and more agile etc.
So... you've read a lot of Animorphs today.
Ugghh. Limited resources. That's why. Evolution is not magic. You are incidentally becoming more suited to an environment, not being transformed into something that is increasingly skilled, proficient, and strong in every conceivable respect.
That would be great, but we can't have everything. My best guess is as we gained mindpower, we lost strength because we didn't need it as much. We stopped living in trees so our arms got weaker because we didn't need to haul ourselves around in them.
This actually sorta makes sense (though not as an attack against evolution).
We never needed exceptional strength; some of the dumber bipedal hominids (Paranthropus ) took that path. Also, "wild" humans (hunter-gatherers) probably wouldn't compare too badly to other bipedal hominids. We can't become as strong as gorillas, but they can't walk bipedally for very long. I've read that gorilla-scale muscled chests and arms would harm our spines, which are not great for bipedalism anyway.
"For Atheists - why are we not gorillas!?" Well, there is an answer, but the complexity of the science would overwhelm you.
"It's pretty late, and this isn't my most well thought out question ever, but this might shake the tree of some light-weights" I thought I knew what he meant by this, until I read his second paragraph. The only tree this guy was shaking was the throttling of the tree of grammar.
I mean having the intelligence of a human in a gorilla body would be great. You'd be much stronger and more agile etc.
If we had gorilla bodies it's unlikely we would have been able to launch manned rockets, given that the average gorilla weighs between 310--450 lbs. Let me spell it out for you--our body weight would have demanded a greater thrust to lift that body mass than the thrust required to lift the average Human--140--190 lbs.
Evolution does not have a goal. The animals that fit a specific niche in their environment are the ones that get to dominate that niche. It also works that animals that specialize are the ones that suffer when something changes.
I am sure that at one point strength is what got us laid, but as we developed, it was the smarter ones that got laid more. Females preferred the male who could use a tool over the one that could break a tree. Hence the more intelligent got to breed.
Can't say I know all about gorilla vs homo sapian evolution BUT........
A gorilla's hands and fingers aren't all that agile. A human brain in a gorilla body would make our current level of tech advancement rather more difficult.
We're Great Apes.
Get used to it.
Actually in open ground I would give the agility advantage to humans over gorillas. Our legs are better developed and relatively more powerful than a gorilla's with far more turning capability.
Plus the advantage of only needing two limbs for locomotion rather than four.
Evolution doesn't make you "better" by the standard that YOU judge to be better, just more suited to your environment. I'm pretty sure ants evolved from something bigger so as to be better adapted to their environment and lifestyle.
I love it when Fundies spew nonsense about Evolution when they know nothing about it.
"Why aren't we gorillas?"
Because gorillas are gorillas. Dumb fuck.
Edit: "I'm pretty sure ants evolved from something bigger so as to be better adapted to their environment and lifestyle."
Wasps, I think. But I could be wrong, and probably am.
The top answer is quite good, but I didn't bother to do any more than skim it, as it is written in the internet language known as "fuckwit"
*edit*
I just re-read it. Actually, the top answer is just 100% fuckwit.
We are stronger and more agile than gorillas...
See we are tool users. Complex tools that we make with simpler tools.
So I want your gorilla to out lift my forklift...
Intelligence means you don't have to use your strength. Bipedalism is a sacrifice we made to live in open country and also to use tools to the degree that we do. We are so good at tool use that we rarely need brute muscular force for anything.
As for agile, we can accelerate faster than most animals. Hell we can dodge remarkably fast.
There is no such thing as "better" in terms of evolution, there is only what works and what does not. Gorilla strength comes at the price of dexterity.
Yeah, for a supposedly fundie question, it's a pretty good one.
But what it skips is the millions of years and countless generations of divergence from the common ancestor between gorillas and humans. During this time, humans were not always modern homo-sapiens. We come from a long line of animals that slowly became bi-pedal, and in the process HAD to lose a lot of the upper-body strength that gorillas have. If we kept that trait, we couldn't walk on two legs - gorillas walk on two legs assisted by their hands. They CAN walk on two limbs for a short bit, but that upper body of theirs can't take the weight for too long. Our upper body gradually diminished.
And it also ignores the fact that up until some 6,000 years ago, we were not a technologically advanced society. Technology did help earlier humans make up for the lack of strength, by providing them with tools and weapons that outstripped raw muscle power. But as we became agrarian humans, we began to lose the need to all be brawny muscle men... we became accountants and merchants and scientists. The need for strength was no longer so prominent - thus, all those weakling humans that would've died in earlier ages suddenly had a means to survive just as long, and reproduce as much, as the strong ones.
Voila - diversity in levels of brawn.
"For Atheists - why are we not gorillas!?"
Because genetically we're closer to chimpanzees.
"evolution is supposed to constantly move organisms towards greater complexity and ability to survive"
You've just answered your own question. The constant mutation of the Commom Cold virus proves the existence of evolution. Otherwise, it would have just died out after people became immune to the original strain.
From our common ancestor, gorillas developed more muscle mass while we developed a slender body and larger brains.
The underlying reasons could be anything from more effective release of body heat, to "that's what the girls liked".
Sorry, I knew you hoped you could challene the field of evolutionary genetics.
An almost legitimate question - so I'll refrain from putting the boot in.
In addition to the stuff FMG outlined as to why humans are better suited for the way in which we live, humans also boast far greater longevity than gorillas - who live just 35-50 years.
@Antichrist (#819046): ...but as we developed, it was the smarter ones that got laid more.
Somewhere along the line, that seems to have changed again. At least, I know I'm not getting any...
Females preferred the male who could use a tool
And the better the male could use his tool, the more the females preferred him!
Well most of us are not gorillas, but i think mabye you are one.
"If evolution is supposed to constantly move organisms towards greater complexity and ability to survive"
You stupid idiot, you clearly dont understand evolution.
Evolution is NOT a Ladder, where the ultimate goal is to be the most intelligent. Birds can fly we dont, it maybe that flying is a better quality in the long run than having a high iq is, we dont know, maybye its better to be strong and abel to eat plants like a gorilla.
Maybye it`s time You fundies should start reading more than one book?
Wow. This is actually not too bad. Ill informed, yes, but not too bad.
The way that humans developed focused more on brainpower than the type of body gorillas have, whereas the gorilla line was better suited to have a powerful body.
Apologies for the very, very brief answer. It's rather late.
>>dg
"wild" humans (hunter-gatherers) probably wouldn't compare too badly to other bipedal hominids. We can't become as strong as gorillas, but they can't walk bipedally for very long.<<
That is correct.
Any adult human in good health can easily beat a gorilla or a chimpanzee in a footrace. But you would be an idiot to wrestle with one.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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