Quote# 53202

[Arguing that the book, “The Five People You Meet in Heaven” is anti-Christian]

Albom's bestseller presents a new and creative vision of heaven. I agree with Albom that there is a heaven and an existence beyond the grave. However, it appears that Albom implies that everyone will go to heaven, and with this I disagree.

Albom portrays realistic characters in his story, none of whom lived a perfect life. All are guilty of some sin and negative behaviors that have consequences, some greater than others. There is some remorse when individuals in heaven learn how their actions caused negative results, but there is not a just payment for their sin.

Albom appears to assume that everyone will eventually find peace when they learn their lessons from the five people they meet. Although this is a comforting note, it is not what the Bible teaches. Albom's story doesn't reveal the dilemma facing all human beings: sin, failing to perfectly live up to God's perfect standard. It is because of sin that the Bible teaches that not everyone can enter heaven. Jesus states in Matthew 7:13, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

The reason is found in the biblical understanding of human nature and God's nature. Man is sinful while God is holy, perfect, and without sin. The Bible teaches that all are guilty of sin and cannot enter into the eternal presence of a holy and just God.

Patrick Zukeran, Probe Ministries 43 Comments [11/26/2008 2:52:11 PM]
Fundie Index: 3

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Please explain:
a) what sin is,
b) why it must be paid for, and
c) why the only valid currency with god is pain and suffering.

11/26/2008 2:56:15 PM


"Man is sinful "

"all are guilty of sin and cannot enter into the eternal presence of a holy and just God"

So NO-ONE gets to go to Heaven then ?
No-one at all ?

11/26/2008 3:01:49 PM

Dan Onymous

The way I read it, if you believe in Jesus, you are saved and that's it.

You think that people who make it to Heaven will still be punished? chapter and verse please.

11/26/2008 3:05:10 PM


"God's perfect standard."

God created imperfect humans. God, therefore, cannot be perfect, because a perfect being, by definition, is perfectly incapable of creating anything that is imperfect.

God's creation of humans also means that he has no standards.

11/26/2008 3:06:33 PM



11/26/2008 3:06:49 PM

Pedantic Twit

Blah blah blah. You really just hate people, don't you?

11/26/2008 3:12:26 PM

Ken R.

Dude- you do realize that's a work of fiction, right?

11/26/2008 3:12:40 PM


God forbid anyone should have a more positive idea of the afterlife than you.

11/26/2008 3:16:03 PM

Is there anything at all that these guys won't turn into something antichristian?

11/26/2008 3:18:36 PM


If only a few people are saved, and most people are punished forever, that would make God a very evil being indeed. If you're that much of a pussy that you will suck up to an evil God out of fear, you are MORE worthy of hell, not LESS!

11/26/2008 3:22:51 PM


The Bible teaches that all are guilty of sin and cannot enter into the eternal presence of a holy and just God.

So everyone is doomed?! Then what is the fucking point of having the bible at all? Couldn't we have just one page that says :

You're Screwed

Seriously, your whole world view is a piece of shit.

11/26/2008 3:25:02 PM

a mind far far away

There are several things wrong with this from both a biblical and theological perspective.

1. According to the bible (Romans 3:23 is the most famous verse) everyone is a sinner. According to 1 John, those who claim to have no sin make god to be a liar.

2. 1 Timothy says that "Jesus is the savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe". So Jesus saves everyone, regardless of belief or not. Belief is just an added bonus. This verse is used to prove universal reconciliation. An important church father, St. Gregory of Nyssa, believed in it so much that he said we should pray even for the devil and his demons to reenter heaven.

3. If breaking the law is sin, then god is most undoubtedly sinful. Does that mean he needs is own atonement through his own son? Sounds like it to me. God is just as guilty as any other sinner.

11/26/2008 3:27:15 PM


Your god is the demon of sin, plain and simple. That is why there are atheists.

Life, you know, does not equal sin.

11/26/2008 3:38:42 PM

Mister Spak

So you won't be there?

11/26/2008 3:47:13 PM


"The Bible teaches that all are guilty of sin and cannot enter into the eternal presence of a holy and just God."
So Jesus died on the cross for nothing?

11/26/2008 3:58:19 PM


#5 Don't kill.
#6 Only married may fuck around with each other so
#10 don't get horny over women that are not your wife.

Also for good meassure:

#8 Don't lie.
Ezekiel 14:9 "And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet"

There's perfect and without sin for you.

11/26/2008 4:12:30 PM


Christians use the word Sin like a drug. I think they actually get an endorphine rush anytime they use it because they'll use it fourteen fucking times in a paragraph. And of course they have to chop up the last few sentences into small pieces because that's how they were brainwashed into beliveing someone else's vision. It's a shame actually.

11/26/2008 4:23:15 PM

Thinking Allowed

Man is sinful while God is holy, perfect, and without sin.

Kind of contradicts the "made in god's image" bit don't ya think?

11/26/2008 4:43:59 PM


Dude, the only logical conclusion I could get, from your post, is that hell and heaven are the same place. My reasoning is this: a bunch of people are going to hell. A bunch of people are going to heaven, too, just relatively less compared to the number of "hell-bound". In such big population (whether in hell or heaven), there will always be smart people. And smart people don't reconcile with the bad situation they got themselfes into. They would want changes, and they will fight for them.
Bad air conditioning in Hell? Dead engineers would find a way to fix it, with the help of bunch of dead workers.
You can't see your family from below-above? Meet the Helvenet, hell and heavens internet.
With problem solving, Hell and heaven will become equal, therefore, the same.

11/26/2008 5:01:46 PM


The Anal Probe Ministries should get a fucking clue, if even a writer understands their religion better than they do they surely have a problem......

11/26/2008 5:10:12 PM


I praise myself lucky that I have never had to worry about so called "sins". Never once have I had to stop and think if something was a "sin". Fear has never ruled my life.

11/26/2008 5:25:05 PM


You know, if I was god, I'd either

a) let everyone into heaven as long as they were a generally good person


b) if I really felt like imposing strange, arbitrary rules that required blind faith, I'd give everyone an infinite number of reincarnations so they could keep trying until they got it right. Kind of like those cheat codes for video games that give you infinite lives/continues.

11/26/2008 5:52:57 PM


So, uh, basically Heaven is completely empty save for the Big Guy, his zombie son, and the Holy Spook?

11/26/2008 5:56:08 PM

Philbert McAdamia

I'm not so curious that I want to read this shit, but casually, who are these 5? Am I wrong in assuming they range in evilness form about a 1 to beyond a 10 on the scale, yet are "saved"?

11/26/2008 6:12:37 PM

A. Christian

Believe it or not, there are Christians who enjoy this site. A lot of us hate Fundamentalism with a passion. Albom has it far more right than any Fundamentalist ever will. God is a loving God who will ultimately forgive and restore his Creation. Fundies, however, present God as this whacked demon who is either uncaring or powerless (depending on your point of view) to save all of His Creation, and so most people will burn in agony forever. Because he "loves you", you see...

Fundamentalism has done more to hurt Christianity than anything else. Please, realize that the Fundies' God is not the same as Our Father in Heaven who sent His son to die for us to pay for our sins. He SUCCEEDED. That's the part the Fundies don't get. He succeeded. Christ won. None shall be lost forever.

11/26/2008 6:17:22 PM

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