("the Bible itself never states that it tells the literal truth.")
There ya go...speaking to things of which you have no real grasp. The Bible IS Truth. It is ALL true, for if one thing in it is a lie, then it is ALL a lie.
51 comments
O Rly?
Then prove that Pi=3.
EPIC FAIL...
Interesting. The bible does give a list of what it's good for, and believing that everything in it is literal is not one of them. As a matter of fact, I can prove, using the bible only, that it says that a scientific and philosophical understanding of it is wrong and a sin, and that only the spiritual reading of it is what matters. Even Paul, in Galatians, understood the story of Hagar and Sarah as only allegory. Peter thought the flood story was symbolic and allegory. Paul disdained a literal understanding of the OT. Even Jesus didn't always trust a literal understanding of the OT. And try adding a literal interpretation to Revelation, that's the only way it's interesting, even if only in some weird, sci-fi sort of way. Of course, even biblical literalists only apply a literal understanding of the bible when it suits their whims and agendas. Do any of you believe that the wine and bread in communion has the real presence of jesus? It's in the bible, read it. So is confession, and baptismal regeneration. Yet none of you believe that. Fundies have the least bit of understanding when it comes to the bible. Of course, with such a contradictory book, it would be hard not to. For instance, the bible supports both Arminianism and Calvinism. The bible supports both a salvation based on faith alone (per Paul), and a salvation based on both faith and works (per James). And jesus taught both of those. He couldn't even get it right, so how were his followers supposed to? Can you lose your salvation? Who knows, the bible teaches both. And these aren't minor errors, like two different texts giving two different numbers for the same event (such as lists of tribes and their numbers after the Babylonian captivity), these are major doctrines. Is jesus god in the flesh? Bible teaches both. What about the trinity? Who knows, it's in there, and it's not. Church heirarchy...there are three different kinds given in the NT. And there are THOUSANDS more. This is what 25 years of theological study brought me to. I became so distraught from studying and getting nowhere, because the more I studied, the more I realized I didn't understand a thing about it. The only logical way out was to call it quits. If you would actually read the bible (which alot of fundies have a hard time doing anyway), you'd realize what a crock of shit it is.
"if one thing in it is a lie, then it is ALL a lie."
Well there are lots of contradictions, and for every contradiction, at least one half is a lie.
so there ya go.
Actually, it does.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.
Still lies though.
Oh and a mind far far away:
I used to hate the boring, theological and doctrine oriented church I grew up in, but it turned out to be a 'blessing in disguise' if you will. Memories of very boring and seemingly pointless church going + great knowledge of Christian doctrines and why they all fail in one way or another = one more atheist! I think if I had grown up in one of those tongues speaking, pentecostal feel-goodism preaching megachurches, becoming an atheist would have been much, much harder.
"It is ALL true, for if one thing in it is a lie, then it is ALL a lie."
How sad that your faith, which you would, I'm guessing, proclaim to be strong, is so flimsy and weak as to resemble a tower of Jenga blocks. Even one block taken away, and it all tumbles down. Those Christians who've figured out that the stories in their Bible aren't meant to be taken literally, on the other hand, can only strengthen their faith by deepening their understanding of those stories.
@G Zimmer:
I actually spent most of my high school years and a few years after in a Pentecostal church. I grew disinterested in the showy emotionalism, and became southern baptist, for a few months. The church I atteneded based most of it's thinking on Rick Warren's book "40 Days of Purpose" and Mel Gibson's "Passion" movie. It was then that I undertook to study everything I could about christianity, it's histories, languages, theologies, everything. After about a year of that, I joined the Eastern Orthodox church. I was Orthodox for about 6 years, and they are HIGHLY concerned with the theological. It was there that I began my study of the church fathers as well. But after awhile, I began to realize that there were things there I didn't like, that I prefered the protestant churches over. And then after going back and forth with that, you get to what I put in my first post on this thread. It was mind boggling, and I couldn't handle it anymore.
"The Bible IS Truth. It is ALL true"
Is it true that talking snakes, talking donkies, and talking flaming bushes exist?! No? Then it is ALL a lie.
Considering that there are 5 acounts of the resurection of christ (arguably the central doctrine of christianity) in the bible that deviate and conflict wildly from each other, I think it's safe to assume that not everything in the bible is literally true, unless you propose alternate realities or timelines.
Since the bible can't even agree with itself on this issue alone, I don't think it's credentials as a guide for anything else are any good either.
Okay, but you know something can be true without being literally true. For instance, it could be true that when my Dad's friend calls on the phone that my Dad is a bit tied up and cannot come to the phone. That doesn't mean his is literally bound with a yard of rope. It just means he's busy.
And if God was so big on stating all his truth in literal fashion, why was Jesus so keen on all those non-literal parables?
And if it's all literal, what's up with all the non-literal interpretations of Revelation to the modern state of the world?
"It is ALL true, for if one thing in it is a lie, then it is ALL a lie." Damn, even I disagree with this. Of course there is some truth in the Bible. Just because that book has myth in it doesnt mean it is complete fiction. Talk about extreme.
You finally got it, Tee-Dubya. But where do you go from here?
This is most encouraging. Please let us know in due course how things went after you saw the light.
The light IS truth. Only he truth is believable. Believe it or not, the Bible is ALL a lie.
fergus
So Pie=3?
FAIL.
BTW, if the Bible is the literal truth and you don't bother to restrict your diet, still wear mixed fabrics, and refuse to marry your rapist if you aren't engaged or married already and get raped then then why bother following any of it? If the Bible is literal you're already going to hell.
Tsk. Typical black-or-white fundie thinking. While the bible is full of contradictions, mythology, and out-right lies, there is SOME truth in it.
For example, there really is a city called Jerusalem.
It's all a lie. Watch Penn and Teller's Bullshit! on the subject.
In Genesis 1:1, God creates the world in six days yadda yadda, creates the garden of eden and makes Adam and Eve at the same time. Then in Genesis 1:2, god creates Adam (again), Adam goes around a bit, names some animals, gets lonely, talks to God, and God takes a rib from Adam and makes Eve. Again.
So if it tells the literal truth, how come he made them TWICE, in two DIFFERENT ways?
Snakes eating dirt.
'Nuff said.
This is the core of fundamentalism. It has to all be literally true or it's worthless.
And yeah, the Bible never does actually claim to be completely, literally true. Snce the Bible as we know it today didn't exist when the texts themselves were being written.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.