He was doing so well up until he whipped out Pascal's Wager.
Oh, wait. No, the whole thing was a big pile of cow flop. My bad.
12/19/2008 4:08:32 AM
Rat of Steel
Ah, yes. Good ol' Pascal's Wager again. *sigh*
You speak of gamblers, Lew, but as a professional poker player, I can state here and now that I and my fellow rounders live to confront suckers like you at the tables who think they know what they're doing, but are actually so far out of their depth as to require an oxygen tank and some flippers.
The odds against anyone being right about this sort of thing are much, much worse than even money. For one thing, there are tens of thousands of religions that exist and have ever existed. What if, despite your belief to the contrary, you've chosen the wrong god to worship? You lose, Lew.
Also, your omniscient God clearly is capable of anger (in fact, I'd say he's got that down to an art). Why haven't you factored into your equation the possibility that God, far from being pleased with you, would be pissed off that you chose to follow him not out of genuine love, but simply to hedge your bets "just in case"? Do you really think your God wouldn't know the difference? Apparently, you do, so again you lose.
Then there's something that no one -- and I mean no one -- who invokes Pascal's Wager ever bothers to consider. Even if one accepts your badly flawed premise that the wager is a 50:50 choice, that means that, guess what? Not only do I have a 50% chance of being wrong, but so do you, bitch! You say "Any experienced gambler will tell you that betting everything on one of two possibilities is foolish", yet you proceed to go on and do that same foolish thing! Are you willing to accept that there's a 50% chance you are wrong?
Hmm. I thought not. Well, thanks for all the chips, Lew; I'd like to take more off of you, but I'm hungry and have bills to pay. These winnings will be quite helpful with that.
12/19/2008 4:10:27 AM
I wish more people lived like dogs. They have a very sensible way of dealing with the world.
12/19/2008 4:11:30 AM
Pascal's wager much.
You know Lew, people would have more of an inclination to believe in God if they didn't have to put up with all the hatred, hypocrisy, bigotry, vilification, castigation and general nastiness and pettiness that goes along with it.
As it is, we can still live a good, happy life by not believing in God and staying as far away as possible from fundamental nutters.
12/19/2008 4:19:18 AM
Please send more information on lusts of the flesh.
12/19/2008 4:24:58 AM
Well, he's right -- Halloween isn't secular. It's PAGAN!
12/19/2008 4:33:52 AM
12/19/2008 4:36:57 AM
Alloween might not be secular, but Halloween is pagan.
12/19/2008 5:05:20 AM
The experienced gambler knows when to hold them, knows when to fold then, knows when to walk way, and knows when to run. He never counts his money when he's sitting at the table.
12/19/2008 5:42:55 AM
Well, you do that. I'm going to get some Smarties and see if there are any orgies on this street.
12/19/2008 5:45:45 AM
...what was the point of that, again?
12/19/2008 5:59:06 AM
a mind far far away
The customs stem from hidden (occult) Paganism
Historically, Paganism has nothing to do with the occult, or not much. Paganism is a belief system based around the worship of the old gods and goddesses. Occultism began with Hermeticism/Kabbalah, and culminated during the medieval era, and had more to do with mysticism and esotericism than with the worship of any deities, although they don't deny the existence of a higher, divine power, they rarely relate this to the old pagan gods/goddesses.
Any experienced gambler will tell you that betting everything on one of two possibilities is foolish
And yet you see no irony in degrading the side that doesn't agree with you, all the while knowing you have to admit to the same gamble. Is this going to be a new way to talk about Pascal's Wager?
we gamble that there is nothing beyond our death to worry about, and we can live as dogs and never pay any penalty for our behavior, we are placing our eternal lives on this bet
I think it is. However, this is the better bet, as there is more evidence to show that there are no deities, than that there are some gods or a god floating around somewhere in outer space.
On the other hand, if we gamble that there MIGHT BE a Creator to answer to, that revealed Himself in miraculous ways, and even gave us His Words to live by, and we live by those Words, then what have we lost if it turns out there is no Creator to answer to?
Yep. Pascal's Wager, a la "The Gambler". What have we lost? Alot. Intelligence, reason, logic, a fulfilled life, a life based on a lie, when there was sufficient proof to show the opposite, etc., etc.
We can still live a good, happy life by obeying our Creator’s Words
Based on the words and actions of your average, everyday conservative christian, I can say that this is BS.
12/19/2008 6:06:47 AM
a mind far far away
Damnit. I got disconnected before I could edit my post. As an Aspie, I tend to be pretty analytical, and as such, I'm not much of a gambler. However, my favorite game of all time, and always will be, is chess. It's based on strategy, which requires quite a bit of analyzing and logic. So if I apply that mentality to your Wager, instead of the gambling one, I can say, after analyzing both sides, I tend to think that atheism is the better bet, although I myself am an agnostic.
12/19/2008 6:16:28 AM
I am Pagan, and so is my best friend. A couple months ago, her 7-year-old daughter wrote a short paper for her class in which she described how she was going to go trick-or-treating for Halloween, then take off her costume and celebrate the ancestors and new beginnings for Samhain, on the same night. I should see if my friend and her daughter are willing to share her paper, since it looks like so many fundies need a 7-year-old's explanation about the differences between the celebrations.
12/19/2008 9:29:39 AM
12/19/2008 10:08:11 AM
in before pasc-
12/19/2008 2:41:33 PM
I agree that Halloween is not secular in origin. The rest of this is just a word salad with Pascal's wager thrown in.
12/21/2008 9:09:15 AM
Pascal's Wager? But what if there's an evil God who punishes those who believe in another God, but spares the nonbelievers?
12/21/2008 2:09:30 PM
sons of thunder
WE all will answer to our creator , wether we believe it or not . Every knee will bow , and every tongue will confess,... It is written ...
12/29/2008 6:20:28 PM
Incorrect, dogs have a verifiable heaven. Where steaks fly from low tree to low tree, the cats are lame and postmen are slow. As demonstrated by the great prophet, G.Larson.
Every so often a dog will remember that their human was particuarly nice and they will be brought back to rub their belly, play catch and open doors.
12/30/2008 12:45:37 AM
Darwin's Lil Girl
The fundamental flaw in Pascal's Wager: what if your creator is the wrong one? Oh, wait, that's right: teh babble says so.
Hallowe'en is so far removed from what it originally was people no longer celebrate or in most cases know about Hallows Eve. That's enough to count as secular.
12/30/2008 1:18:19 AM