what? evolution has nothing to do with morality!
12/30/2008 12:09:42 PM
What is that shit supposed to mean or to prove?
And evolution is nothing to do with morality you thick fundie moron.
12/30/2008 12:14:01 PM
Even by Free Republic standards this is an amazing word salad.
12/30/2008 12:17:31 PM
Gravity is also incorrect, because its moral system applauds people jumping off buildings to kill themselves.
12/30/2008 12:19:08 PM
Percy Q. Shun
What the fuck are you talking about?
Do you even think before you attempt to string words together?
12/30/2008 12:22:41 PM
It's as stupid as saying that gravity is guilty for the guys who jump over a 100 feet building.
12/30/2008 12:26:58 PM
If you're trying to make the point I think you're trying to make, then go shove your naturalistic fallacy back where it came from.
12/30/2008 12:35:55 PM
There's a very simple standard you drooling POS. If I wouldn't like something to happen to me? I don't do that thing to others. Morality is the default setting for sane social animals.
Freepers, on the other hand, are the most loathsome creatures on the planet. Seriously. The whole rabid pack should be strapped down and medicated.
12/30/2008 12:37:48 PM
What Hitler did argue for his morality was that he was fulfilling the will of the Creator and protecting His creation. Hitler therefore may not be the best example for whatever point you're trying to make.
12/30/2008 12:40:57 PM
12/30/2008 12:43:10 PM
15 words to godwin...
12/30/2008 12:45:54 PM
Oh, for fucks sake. This has got to be the worst thing i have seen here.
12/30/2008 12:54:18 PM
You know what, I am going to say that this is a rather smart fundie. Isn't this sort of thing the exact thing that Dawkins was talking about when he got taken out of context? In an atheistic world how do you separate right from wrong? There is no objective morality and that is the point that ModelBreaker is trying to make I believe. BTW Michael Shermer (of Skeptic Mag. fame) has talked about evolutionary instinct as a possible basis for morality and indeed certain aspects of morality do make sense under evolution; so for ModelBreaker to bring it up isn't like he is pulling it out of his ass. While he isn't correct on the "most" offspring being the goal of evolution per se, I can certainly see why he would believe that.
While I agree that is probably his view, he was not specifically addressing that but rather atheist morality and imo, he had valid views on the subject. For an atheist to say that there is some sort of objective morality is to be guilty of the very thing we level against theists, namely, not wanting to accept things we do not like.
12/30/2008 1:09:39 PM
You're giving him too much credit, this is "Only people with belief in the Bible can be moral. All morality (ever), comes from the Bible. So if you do not have a belief in it, you can not be moral."
Which completely ignores the bevy of philosophy and ethical systems which exist independent of Biblical mores.
12/30/2008 1:18:35 PM
Fundie philosophizing 101:
1) Make man of straw.
2) Knock down man of straw.
3) Declare win.
12/30/2008 1:35:12 PM
This fundie must of been shit faced ,Noone has clue has to what he trying to say he dosnt even know i t. But like most drunk fools he making perfect sense to himself .
To him his argued is full of with charm and wit that would make Ben Franklin envious .
But the truth of he just another drunk fundie talking a bunch of fundie bullshit and making a complete ass out him self . and his fundie friends .Who I bet all cringes when they read this bullshit, knowing full well we go to find it post and l laugh our asses off over the stupidity of it.
12/30/2008 2:07:28 PM
i don't get it. really. if i don't believe in god, yet i live a law-abiding life doing what good I can to help people in the various organizations i'm a part of of, i'm immoral. but if i believe in a man in the sky, regardless of what i do, i'm automatically moral? why not the reverse?
personally i think many christians are immoral - i've seen more self-professed god-lovers throw away pets because they're 'just animals' and pop out more kids then they can afford and beg people - myself included - for money to buy food (yet they can afford gaming systems... odd... god obviously provides electronics in lieu of cash and/or food) which they then blow at the casino or at bingo (i'm from the niagara region, 'nuff said) yet they are automatically considered to be 'good' because they worship the invisible man, while i'm considered 'wicked' (or so i've been told) because i don't go to church on sunday.
tl;dr..... i don't get it.
12/30/2008 2:20:27 PM
You make no sense.
12/30/2008 2:21:08 PM
But how would he know he is moral? He’s just a guy that doesn’t kill people.
Adolf Hitler can make just as strong an argument for his own personal morality as can your hypothetical moral athiest. Belief in your own rightness is the only standard.
Okay, I'm going to clip it here, because the rest of this makes no sense. I'm also going to ignore the Hitler reference, because there is more than enough evidence as to where he got his morals from.
The problem you're having is that you're not understanding the concept of morals. All morals are subjective-even biblical ones. Take, for example, divorce. In the bible, Jesus says divorce is wrong-that it's immoral. However, even he allows that there is a time where it is okay to get a divorce-when your spouse commits adultery. So, divorce is wrong in some instances, but allowable in others.
Murder is the same thing, even biblically. One of the ten commandments says, plainly, "Do not commit murder." Therefore, murder is an immoral act. Again, though, the bible itself gives times when murder (defined as the taking of a human life) is allowable. Capital punishment, for example-numerous crimes in the Old Testament were considered punishable by death. In war, by definition, murder is allowed. Even people who kill in self defense are not considered immoral in the bible.
The difference between my morals (as an atheist) and your morals (as a Christian) is our source. You, as a Christian, get your morals from your god. I.e., a thing is good or bad because God tells us it is good or bad. As an atheist, I need to get my morals from my own thought process. For instance, here is how I came to the conclusion that murder is an immoral act:
I, by virtue of being human, have certain innate rights. I have the right to live, and I have the right to do what I need to do to continue living. Because you are also human, you also have this right. There is no objective reason why I could deny you this right. If I were to kill you (or any human), it would be denying that you had the right to live. Since there is no objective reason for me to do this, I consider murder to be immoral. Do I believe that there are situations where it would be alright to kill someone? Certainly. If my life, or someone else's was in jeopardy, and the only way I could save my life was to kill someone, I would consider it okay to do so.
Now, granted, my source of morals (the fact that I have value by virtue of being human, and, by extension, so do other humans) is not an objective source. It's a source that I came up with, and it works for me. Other people use the fact that they want to live in society and have access to all the benefits that society brings them, so it's important not to do things that would harm society in general, and the members of society specifically. It doesn't change the fact, however, that it is a source on which to base your morals. To me, it's a good source. It boils down to me treating others (as humans) the same way that I (as a human) wish to be treated.
12/30/2008 2:31:22 PM
Again, you already have your foolish little mind made up and no amount of proving you are wrong would change it. You're just looking for an excuse to close your ears and babble about Hitler. You make yourself look stupid and you do a very good job of it.
12/30/2008 2:36:46 PM
in evolutionary terms there is no such thing as morality. moron.
12/30/2008 2:45:44 PM
But how would he know he is moral? He’s just a guy that doesn’t kill people.
That goes a long way toward reaching the coveted "moral dude" position.
Adolf Hitler can make just as strong an argument for his own personal morality as can your hypothetical moral athiest.
That must be why so many high-ranking atheists were rounded up to stand trial at Nuremburg.
Belief in your own rightness is the only standard.
The consequences of one's actions are a pretty good barometer as to what is moral and what is not moral.
12/30/2008 2:54:42 PM
just a guy that doesn’t kill people.
Surely that's a good start, wouldn't you agree?
12/30/2008 3:03:44 PM
12/30/2008 3:09:24 PM
12/30/2008 3:19:21 PM