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Quote# 55197

You want proof for the existence of God, here are a few:

1. Israel - God said that they will always be a people once He brought them into existence and they have been. They are here today even though many atheists have tried to destroy them (Stalin as one example).

2. The over 300 Old Testament prophecies (some written 1500 years before His birth) of the first Advent of Jesus Christ. Could not be a coincidence because we do not have a number large enough to show the odds against all of them being fulfilled in One person.

3. The resurrection - yes the one with Christ Himself but also the one that I experienced. I was spiritually dead in my sins (a slave to sin) and God brought me to life (changed my life and set me free from slavery to sin).

Three real proofs, now go ahead and hit your knees in repentance (agree that God is right and you are wrong).

By the way God does not hear the prayers of non-Christians (with the exception of their first prayer of repentance).

Erik Brewer, Dangerous Intersection 122 Comments [12/31/2008 6:55:23 PM]
Fundie Index: 13
Submitted By: King Crusader
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1 2 3 4 5
agentCDE

1: Moar like Stalin as THE ONLY example amirite? Congratulations, you've proven that Allah doesn't exist. Don't do shit for your case, though. Israel just has a badass military.

2: Wow! Foreshadowing in a book is proven true IN THE SAME FUCKING BOOK. Also, any talk of "odds" by people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about (ie, YOU) instantly makes me start raging.

3: Pride is a sin. You might want to deal with that and stop making smug, holier-than-thou comments like your very next two lines before you claim any sort of bullshit "resurrection".

You can take your repentance and shove it up your ass sideways, douchebag. Your god doesn't even hear your prayers, and you know it.

also itt agent is an angry man for no reason

1/1/2009 7:41:51 AM

Canadiest

1) Isreal. Established as a nation by the allies. Probably the first example of "White Mans Burden" applied to the jews for all them Crusades and Christian shit they've suffered under

2)We wrote a new book saying those prophecies have come true! It's a book it can't be wrong, it's a testament, just like the old one but new!

3)See above and get a clue

1/1/2009 2:24:10 PM

airee

1. Israel the country or Israelites? As in, the chosen people will always own the promised land? That hasn't come to pass -- bits of Israel keep shifting in control between various nations.

2. Jesus hasn't fulfilled all of the prophesies. Your religion added a bunch of extra shit (The Second Coming) to explain away why Jesus did NOT fulfil all of the prophesies (like how there weren't supposed to be anymore wars, how the Messiah was supposed to be the new King of Israel, how all the Jews were supposed to be united again in the promised land, like how we were supposed to have 2000 years of peace, etc etc etc). Odds or sods, he didn't fulfil shit.

3. The resurrection never happened with Jesus Christ, because people do not rise from the dead. There is no credible evidence that this happened, despite what you might like to believe. Also, a person cannot be "spiritually dead", because the "spirit" is not a part of the body, nor can it be measured, nor can it be verifiable as growing and changing (and therefore alive) or not, (and therefore dead).

None of this is evidence, nor, even if it was even the slightest bit credible, would it be likely to make me agree that your god is right and I am wrong. I believe your god is wrong about many things, and even if he was proven to exist, there'd be a few more things I'd like to ask him before I chose to devote my life to him.

By the way, god doesn't hear any prayers because god is imaginary.

9/2/2009 4:19:37 AM

ErikBBrewer

Your hatred and mocking never cease to amaze me. The prophecies of the Old T. were written before the historical fact took place (there is evidence of the documents). Then, history (secular history) proved the documentation true (i.e., it was foretold in the Bible and it actually happened in history). You guys do not have to accept reality, that is your choice. Your answers did not disprove the statements I made. They just showed your anger and hatred. I deal in facts, unlike you (which I am not surprised because I am sure you "believe" in macro-evolution).

3/22/2011 5:14:49 PM

478

"You guys do not have to accept reality, that is your choice."
This coming from a guy who believes in in an imaginary sky fairy? Take a look in the mirror. There is no verifiable evidence that Jesus Christ was resurrected or that your so-called God even exists, so don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
"Your answers did not disprove the statements I made."
It sure looks like they did.
"They just showed your anger and hatred"
Calling you out on your bullshit=/= anger and hatred.
"I deal in facts, unlike you"
Oh, the irony. You're just lucky no one else on this site has noticed your presence.

3/22/2011 6:23:56 PM

ErikBBrewer

Over 500 people saw the resurrected Jesus. It could not have been a hallucination, 2 people do not have the same one, much less 500. An enemy of Jesus, Saul, claimed to see the resurrected Christ. Why would an enemy of Christ reinforce the resurrection. The brothers of Jesus mocked Him, why would they lie about the resurrection. Many of the apostles were martyred because they testified of the resurrection. It is hard enough to convince people to die for the truth, much less a lie. And none of them cracked and changed their story. They all went to their deaths with the same claim. That in itself is enough evidence.

3/22/2011 9:33:04 PM

Canadiest

Extrodinary claims demand extrodinary evidence. You have nothing. Even the Romans, who were there and documented more than most culture, had nothing on your Messiah. No historians recognize the Bible as accurate substantiated history.

The Greeks already had Mithra though, it's where your Jesus story comes from, before Jesus were the Mithra followers, before in timeline and the same group that brought the Jesus story to Rome.

3/23/2011 7:23:18 AM

Anon2

All points debunked in a second:

1) Survivors bias.
2) Self-reference proofs nothing.
3) Non sequitur par excellence.

"Erik Brewer", when these are the best "proofs" you have, then the existence of your "God" stands on extremely shaky grounds.

3/23/2011 7:57:19 AM

Swede

1. Stalin was a megalomaniac and more or less worshipped himself. He was studying to become a priest in his youth.
2. You first have to prove that Jesus existed, and that he was the Son of God.
3. Once again, you first have to prove that Jesus was resurrected. If being "saved" is a proof of the existence of a deity, then all deities exist, as everyone has at least had one who believed in him/her/it.

No real proof, more like it. Why the knees, specifically?

If I pray, I pray to "all powers that be", then only the petty egoistic ones don't listen.

3/23/2011 8:04:06 AM

Anon-e-moose

"even though many atheists have tried to destroy them"

What's happening to Libya as part of a potential 'Reverse-Domino Effect' (Egypt, Tunisia) could actually help Israel (if all the Middle East countries were purely India-esque secular democracies). The vote in Parliament the other day to approve of UK armed forces' intervention to save Libyan civilians (almost unanimous too). Nick Clegg as one example. He's our Deputy Prime Minister. He's an Atheist.

"The over 300 Old Testament prophecies"

The bullshit levels in such are OVER 9000!

"The resurrection"

If such actually happened - because there's not one shred of physical evidence to back up such. There's nary a shred of evidence that an actual 'Jesus' ever existed, but was a conglomeration of earlier, similar myths (Mithras, for one).

Three rebuttals to your claims, Erik. Now go ahead and hit your knees before me in humility. Agree that - as far as you (and the rest of your fundie ilk) are concerned, we Atheists are God.

By the way, 'God' does not hear prayers, because he doesn't exist.

3/23/2011 8:11:20 AM

ErikBBrewer

You wrote "Survivors bias."

They did not survive, they died because they proclaimed the resurrection. Again, it is quite hard for a person to be martyred willingly for the truth much less a lie. Now add the one person times 11. One would have to eventually crack if it were all a lie (maybe not the first or the second, but long before the 11th, liars tend not to respect a pact that they make with others, like "we really did not see Jesus resurrected but let's claim that we did, even if it kills us".

You guys are quite hostile toward a God whom you claim does not exist (I find that terribly ironic).

3/23/2011 8:54:46 AM

ErikBBrewer

You still have not dealt with the over 300 Old T. prophecies written in different times by different men in different countries. You, just calling it "crap" is not a real defense. Try again next time.

And no one seems to want to challenge the changed lifestyle proof. Have fun with that one boys.

3/23/2011 8:56:43 AM

rubber chicken

"You still have not dealt with the over 300 Old T. prophecies written in different times by different men in different countries. You, just calling it "crap" is not a real defense. Try again next time. "

You don't appear to be reading the answers given. There is no contempory evidence for the existence of Jesus, therefore, there is no contempory evidence that any "prophecies" were fulfilled.

"And no one seems to want to challenge the changed lifestyle proof. Have fun with that one boys."

Please provide evidence of lifestyle change and then provide evidence that such change could only have been brought about by the intervention of the Christian God.


3/23/2011 9:08:57 AM

Anon2

@ErikBBrewer:

Thank you for addressing my point.

I think you don't know what I mean with "survivorship bias". Survivorship bias is a well-known fallacy. Please read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Let me quote: "Survivorship bias is the logical error of concentrating on the people or things that "survived" some process and inadvertently overlooking those that didn't because of their lack of visibility. "

Please apply this to your argument "Israel is still here, just what the bible told us", and you should see clearly why your argument is wrong.

3/23/2011 9:59:01 AM

Justanotheratheist

Being "a slave to sin" and turning your life around is hardly the same thing as being dead and then coming back to life after two days.

There is more chance that I will agree that Barrack Obama is a Martian in disguise before I will admit that God even exists, let alone that he is right about anything.

All you have given us is the old and utterly worthless "the bible is true because the bile is true" routine, which proves absoplutely nothing except that a book called the bible exists. Furthermore, while we're on the subject of biblical accuracy (the ultimate oxymoron), please explain the four-legged insect, talking snake, and pi=3 nonsense. We are breathless with anticpiation. Three proofs that the bible is a pile of old cobblers, at least if taken literally - as fundies do.

By the way, you might want to address your last sentence to such non-Christians as the Muslims and the Jews, who worship the same god as you do even though I know fundies seem to find the idea horrifying.

3/23/2011 10:14:05 AM

Anon-e-moose

@ErikB(ullshit)Brewer

"You guys are quite hostile toward a God whom you claim does not exist"



How can we be 'hostile' towards a being that doesn't exist? The game goes like this (for the hard of thinking such as ErikB(ullshit)Brewer):

Well, y'see, we're not the ones who put forward the notion that a 'God' exists. It's you Christians who do. Thus the onus is upon you to show us (to our satisfaction) this 'God' (and that's 'God' himself, not 'Jesus') in hard, solid, physical form that can be seen, heard & touched; also that he is who he says he is, via demonstrations of his power - again, to the satisfaction of we Atheists. And if that means he must do whatever I say in perpetuity, so be it. Them's the terms, they're not up for negotiation.

Therefore, it's up to you to show that this being you fundies claim 'created' this universe, this planet & all the life on it exists. Ergo, the Burden of Proof. Which is upon you. QED.

But to date, he hasn't been able to. Ergo, 'God doesn't exist. Q.E.D., bitch.

Your call, ErikB(ullshit)Brewer.

3/23/2011 10:59:30 AM

JohnTheAtheist

Erik, you are a huge tool. We mock you because mockery is the only way to deal with unintelligible propositions.

If you honestly think these things are proofs you really are an idiot. Try them in a court.

There is no evidence, I repeat NO EVIDENCE, that Jesus even existed.

3/23/2011 11:17:05 AM



I did not say that the Bible is true because the Bible is true. I gave you tangible proof that you will not refute. You just start with the foul language and name calling.
1) God said in the Old T. that He would cease to exist when the Jews did. Since He said that, they have not ceased to exist. Hitler tried. The Romans tried. The Greeks tried. Stalin tried. Babylon tried. All of them utterly failed at wiping out the Jews. They are still here just as God promised. I know you guys cannot counter the argument so you shift and spin, as well as name call etc.

2) The Old T. prophecies that were already written before Jesus was born (over 300 of them) and He fulfilled all of them. Also, the prophesies about the nations that would be powerful in human history (the Medo-Persian empire, Grecian Empire and Roman empire) all foretold in Daniel many years before they came into being (very detailed accounts like Greece would have one leader who would fall and 4 more would rise up in his place)

3) A person's changed character. The Bible says that a person who repents and accepts Christ as Lord (Master) will be transformed from the inside out. He will be changed from a person with a sinful character (enslaved by his sins) to a person who has the character of God and the power to say no to sin and temptation. That happened in my life. It is very tangible. I have seen it happen countless times. The Bible claims it and reality proves it.

3/23/2011 11:37:49 AM

Anon-e-moose

@#1270484 (presumably ErikB[ullshit]Brewer)

You haven't answered the question! Specifically you prove the existence of your 'God' the only credible way - certainly to the satisfaction of we Atheists:

1- He appears before us in hard, solid physical form that can be seen, heard and touched.

2- To prove he is what he says he is, he demonstrates his powers - again, to our satisfaction. And if that means he must do whatever I say in perpetuity, so be it.

Them's the terms, they're not up for negotiation.

Now, when - and only then - he satisfies these conditions of proof of his existence, then - and only then - will we Atheists acknowledge the existence of this 'God' of yours. Whether or not he's deserving of 'belief', worship, or even respect is an entirely different matter. And frankly, he's sorely lacking in those aspects:



If he even has the right to 'belief', worship or respect? As shown above, he deserves none of those things. Satan (if he exists; he's all part of the fairytale that is 'Religion' too) is deserving of worship & respect.

And via the simple fact that I've never killed anyone in my life - nor do I want to ever - therefore proves that I'm infintely superior - certainly morally - to your 'God' (if he exists, that is). If anything, he should be bowing down and worshipping me.

Now, can you do that*? Make this 'God' of yours appear to us, as per the above conditions? After all, if he can do something as hyper-complex as poof an entire universe into being, then just appearing (and that's 'God' himself, not 'Jesus') is in comparison, a piece of piss.

...what's that? You can't? Well then. It just goes to prove that your so-called 'God' doesn't exist. Ergo, the more than infinite superiority of Atheism. QED.

Your call, ErikB(ullshit)Brewer.

*- As a comedian once said (emphasis added):

'If God is the most powerful being in the universe, why does he need a bunch of bozos to do his P.R.?'

--EDIT--

@ErikB(ullshit)Brewer

"Do you think criminals should be punished or should they be allowed to do what they want?"

Better point that extremely shiny mirror at your own God. If he existed, he'd be up before a Crimes against Humanity court before now.

3/25/2011 9:36:13 AM



@ Anon
I think you should read this, http://erikbrewer.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/confusion-between-crime-and-punishment/

So unoriginal of you. Do you think criminals should be punished or should they be allowed to do what they want?

Update

I figured you would run away from that question. You were not original in your accusation and even more unoriginal in your spin. :)

3/25/2011 10:44:36 AM

Anon-e-moose

@ErikB(ullshit)Brewer

"Do you think criminals should be punished or should they be allowed to do what they want?"

And this has any relevance whatsoever to the point in hand: 'proof of the existence of a 'God'?

'Do you think criminals should be punished or should they be allowed to do what they want?' isn't even mentioned in the original quote.

But since it's you who brought it up, I'll indulge your little non-sequitur; okay. 'Criminals'. 'Punisment', eh? A question, if you'll indulge me, ErikB(ullshit)Brewer:

The brutal killing/murder of unborn babies. In any circumstances and/or situations whatsoever - certainly by anyone, using any method whatsoever, and without exception.

Right or wrong? No grey areas, or swerving/spinning of the issue. Killing/murder of unborn babies - yes or no?

Especially keeping in mind you own words:

"I figured you would run away from that question"

3/26/2011 1:49:22 PM

ErikBBrewer

Asking another question is not answering the question that I posed to you. BTW, any uneducated bum off the streets can swear. So if you are educated, then why use foul language?

Please answer my question to you about criminals and punishment and then I will respond to your question (I have seen this trap before from people like you, just to let you know in advance, again, you are so unoriginal).

3/26/2011 4:38:19 PM

flashbazzzbo

erik,you jag,proof of your invisible puppetmaster,please?please? you fundie assbags constantly move the fucking goalposts.you have repeatedly been asked the same fucking question.answer it or shut the fuck up.where is the proof of your alleged god??definitive proof.extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.ever heard of that?you see,erik,if i claim that a bigfoot performs vaudville shows in my garage on tues. and thurs.(matinee on saturdays)somebody will eventually tell me to put up or shutup.then what,erik?will i take the route you have taken,and obfuscate,or will i finally admit that i made the whole thing up?or will i claim that some old guys in dresses who liked to fondle my junk on occasion told me it was so?erik,shitstain,it is simple.provide definitive proof of your god,or go the way that your peculiar set of beliefs are going.extinct.again,erik,you deluded nutsack,empirical evidence of your cosmic bullyboy,or shut the motherfuck up.

3/27/2011 1:21:54 AM

flashbazzzbo

i would like to say i'm sorry to erik for the foul language i used in my earlier post.i'd like to,but ,you know,i dont really feel that bad about it,so ,again,fuck you erik,you god bothring bitch...............thank you

3/27/2011 1:26:29 AM

Canadiest

"2) The Old T. prophecies that were already written before Jesus was born (over 300 of them) and He fulfilled all of them. Also, the prophesies about the nations that would be powerful in human history (the Medo-Persian empire, Grecian Empire and Roman empire) all foretold in Daniel many years before they came into being (very detailed accounts like Greece would have one leader who would fall and 4 more would rise up in his place)"

I assume that's you again Erik (kudos on coming back despite you feeling us calling you deluded is a hate issue, as for the language complaint, grow up )

You're ignoring real history here, The Greek and Roman empires existed in the timeline of all the hebrew scrolls your Old Testaments is made from. Rome wasn't built in a day,nor was it popped into being for your Christ story.

Please try again and we'll try not to offend your tender sensibilities with dirty words

3/27/2011 8:31:45 AM
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