Us disregarding, hating, rejecting an infinite God is an infinite crime.
Who the crime is against matters. If you reject a slug, it doesn't matter. If you reject the president, it matters. If you reject the God who created you, the king of the universe, the infinately powerful, loving God, then it really matters.
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If you reject the president, it matters.
Only to the extent that my rejection of the President impinges on his chances for re-election. Other than that my rejection of him/her (so long as that rejection isn't demonstrated in an attempt to assassinate him) has zero bearing on his term of office or his policies.
If you reject the God who created you, the king of the universe, the infinately powerful, loving God, then it really matters.
This touches on the initial thought that, for me, led to my questioning and finally rejecting the idea of a deity: Why would an all-powerful and all-knowing being have any interest whatsoever in my actions, in my ideas, or in my love life? That seems to me to be the equivalent of Stephen Hawking being passionately concerned about what the ants are getting up to.
The way I look at it, as a fundamentalist agnostic, if there is a God that is evil, then it can't be the true god, because you may be obeying this god out of fear, but you despise it otherwise, because you are MORE moral. The true god is the one you use to judge the fake god. So to talk about a god that does things that would be wrong for a human to do, but is somehow ok because Meester Beeg is doing it, is just gibberish.
See, this is why Discordianism is more fun. We START with the premise that Goddess gives us this universe for the sake of shits and giggles so she can laugh at us. Heaven is when we get to be in on the joke. Or something like that. I dunno. But starting with the premise that the Christian god is just, good, kind, and yet did everything attributed to it in the bible... is insane.
There have been plenty of presidents I rejected. Big, fat, hairy deal.
And as for your god for someone whom you claim to be "king of the universe, the infinately [SIC] powerful, loving God," if he gets all butt-hurt just because some puny little human rejects him, he's a petty, pathetic whiner who deserves to be rejected.
"Us disregarding, hating, rejecting an infinite God is an infinite crime."
Says who?
And surely, with great power comes great responsibility. So with infinite power, God is infinitely responsible. In which case God should shoulder the responsibility for all those people who committed the infinite crime of rejecting him and take their place in Hell for all eternity.
(You see, that's why you can't just make shit up and call it an argument!)
An offense by a finite creature against an infinite God should be an infinitesimal crime. After all, if we may follow your own analogy, if a slug rejects you, it doesn't matter.
Us disregarding, hating, rejecting an infinite God is an infinite crime.
Wrong, dumbass. Justice can only come when everyone is treated equally under the law regardless of their wealth, power, or standing in society.
This sort of argument makes me think of the early days of the Civil Rights Movement. When bigoted white boys could go out and "lynch themselfs ah nigger" and instead of being brought up and convicted for murder, they were slapped on the wrist with "Violating the victim's civil rights."
For justice to matter, the law must be blind.
David B. wrote:
"And surely, with great power comes great responsibility. So with infinite power, God is infinitely responsible. In which case God should shoulder the responsibility for all those people who committed the infinite crime of rejecting him and take their place in Hell for all eternity." That's kinda-sorta like what they're saying Jesus did -- take the place of the sinner by dying on the cross for their crimes against God.
The difference, of course, is that for some reason Jesus's sacrifice doesn't count unless you believe in him.
" If you reject the president, it matters. "
I recall all the energy you people still put into rejecting the president.
@ Doctor Whom: conversely, if God committed a crime against us, being an infinite god, it's an infinite crime.
Au contraire, mon ami. The severity of the crime is inversely proportional to the power level of the victim or perhaps 'victim', as it may be. If I reject my child, that really matters. If I reject the president, he doesn't even shrug. If I reject the infinitely powerful God, power level over 9000, he should not even notice.
Or are you saying that I am so powerful that I can hurt the creator of the universe? Careful, there, or I might suddenly develop delusions of grandeur.
Hmm. So, according to you, the degree to which rejection of any given being can be said to matter is directly proportional to how powerful that being is?
Thanks for the info, Red. I'll make sure we both remember that, next time I hear you and yours crowing your heads off about a pregnant woman rejecting a clump of cells that's barely even started developing yet.
You're assuming, of course, that such a God exists in the first place.
But that's what this is all about, isn't it?
"If you reject the God who created you, the king of the universe, the infinately powerful, loving God, then it really matters."
But does it really, REALLY matter?
Ah, no, that's why we have a justice system. Because the punishment should fit the crime. You run over a homeless person or a CEO, the crime is the same.
Also, ten bucks says this person rejects Obama as "his" president. :p
"If you reject a slug, it doesn't matter, If you reject the president, it matters"
Whooo there homey...no one disses the slug.
"loving god"
Oh, the irony!
If you reject the God who created you, the king of the universe, the infinately powerful, loving God, then it really matters.
Why? Is He some kind of egomaniac?
Ok, but who are you commiting a crime against by rejecting reality and the human mind? Just yourself. Do that mean you should punish yourself? Since the crime you committed against reality and your mind is murder, then you should off yourself. That would be fun.
I'm still waiting for your interpretation of Epicurus' riddle to save the idea of your 'omnipotent, omnibenevolen & omniscient' god. really. hit me.
oh and by the way, if god was all the above mentioned, it would indeed be stupid to reject him. Atheists however reject the very idea of the existence of a god and won't be fooled by your 'you'll burn in hell' or 'god is so cute'. simply because it's not real. get over it, you have an imaginary friend you need desperately because you're afraid of death.
Millions of you reject the president.
I see them every day. I listen to them talk about how "their president is McCain/Palin/Ron Paul/Bachmann" on a daily basis. Some of them I'm related to.
Apparently rejecting the president is a far, far less important thing than you want the rest of us to think it is.
Why do you hate your god, dearie?
My mum and dad created me. I don't reject them.
Have you had an ant-farm or something similar, honey? Would you have minded, or even noticed, if they disregarded, hated or rejected you?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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