Teaching them about hell will not do trauma to a child; it is good if they are afraid. We should ALL be afraid! God is not like us (sorry Oprah), he is far above us and beyond us in every capacity, yes he is the embodiment of love, but not at the sake of justice and sovereignty. Jesus told us to not fear man, but instead fear God who can kill the soul; Proverbs tell us the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It is not wrong to fear God, but that fear should bring us to our knees, shattering our pride and sense of goodness and realize the desperate state we are in called sin. Going to God on His terms, which is repentance and remission of sins through Jesus Christ, and following Him.
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"[God]...has a special place full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and anguish where he will send YOU to live, suffer, burn, choke, scream and cry forever and ever til the end of time . . .but HE LOVES YOU!
--George Carlin R.I.P.
And THIS is why I had issue with the very idea of hell, but mostly with THIS idea of God. That God is a tyrant, and I REFUSE to comply with a tyrant's orders. If such an asshole exists, he beats humanity's tyrants hands down. If we saw fit to fight Hitler and his ilk, then this shit-head deserves no less treatment. If he exists like the fundies claim, then I'd rather go down fighting then watch as people are tortured for an eternity for not loving the tyrant enough...
I must not fear.
- Frank Herbert (one of my literary gods)
Right, because your good and loving God, the one who is love itself, the God who already knows the hearts of all men, desires that all of his special creations, made in his image, should live in fear. Go suck an egg.
Reading this passage, does anyone share my view that these words do not show any indication whatsoever that the writer has any sense of shame or humility at all, and that he or she is so full of pride and a sense of his or her colossal goodness and wisdom that he or she is about to implode?
Forte, your Nemesis, who is called Acme, is stalking you. Look out! A plummeting piano has your name on it!
fergus
It is not wrong to fear God, but that fear should bring us to our knees, shattering our pride and sense of goodness and realize the desperate state we are in called sin.
(werewolf)
*smiles at werewolf as he awakens from a much-needed nap, his eyelids still feeling a bit heavy*
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
*opens a nearby can and takes three good-sized swallows of the aforementioned carbonated nectar of the gods*
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
Yes, God loves you, especially in a nice port wine sauce with a side of portabella mushrooms. Makes His mouth water just thinking about it. Well, you wouldn't want all those roasted souls to go to waste now, would you? What did you think it was all for?
God is not like us (sorry Oprah), he is far above us and beyond us in every capacity, yes he is the embodiment of love, but not at the sake of justice and sovereignty.
Your God's idea of justice in this instance is so far out of touch with reality as to be meaningless. Eternal torture for a finite lifetime of ignoring his existence is not justice, and is not a sign of a loving god.
@Mrs. Antichrist
Because one teaches the children that if they listen and do exactly as they say, said kids will find eternal happiness, if they only slog through the misery that is their current existence. The other teaches them that their existence doesn't necessarily HAVE to be misery...and that if they just live their lives, they can actually be content with life *HERE.*
yes he is the embodiment of love, but not at the sake of justice and sovereignty
So god is all-loving, except when he's not? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of all-loving?
Jesus told us to not fear man, but instead fear God who can kill the soul; Proverbs tell us the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom
But doesn't the babble, as well as common sense, tell us that love cannot coexist with fear?
It is not wrong to fear God, but that fear should bring us to our knees, shattering our pride and sense of goodness
I guess the ejaculation of a deity would do that.
yes he is the embodiment of love, but not at the sake of justice and sovereignty
So god is all-loving, except when he's not? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of all-loving?
Jesus told us to not fear man, but instead fear God who can kill the soul; Proverbs tell us the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom
But doesn't the babble, as well as common sense, tell us that love cannot coexist with fear?
It is not wrong to fear God, but that fear should bring us to our knees, shattering our pride and sense of goodness
I guess the ejaculation of a deity would do that.
Edit: Damn double post.
It's never good to put fear into childs heart. Therefore, if I ever get the opportunity to knee before your god, I certainly will. To pull out the knife I keep in my boot for that occasion and end his despotic existence!
Yes, but is it wrong to follow a god that's mentally insane? And why do lots of people who do follow your god write such horrific things?
Earlier today, there was a quote on FSTDT from someone at Rapture Ready writing with glee about the torture of captives.
Attributes of sovereignty: Justice first, then mercy. These 'tards give their omnipotent god less kingship than a petty tyrant - and he's supposed to by the embodiment of love.
Put it another way: a parent may punish a child - severely - but will then forgive and show love - and mitigate the punishment in the face of contrition. Their god holds a grudge for eternity.
Jesus told us to not fear man, but instead fear God who can kill the soul
Yeah, but he never explained why God should want to kill the soul. If God is "far above us and beyond us in every capacity", why does He torture us in hell for our behavior? If your pet dog, whom you are "far above ... and beyond ... in every capacity", crapped on the rug or wandered out of the yard, would you torture the animal for the rest of its life? And if you did, would anyone, including the dog, consider you the "embodiment of love" - or even sane?
Living in fear isn't good for anybody, and especially not for people who haven't yet even developed a -normal- sense about the world.
I think you may be confused as to the definition of fear in this context. I'm led to believe (by people very much like you in their thinking) that it means respect, rather than being afraid. As such, your argument has no place in that discussion.
This isn't necessarily regarding hell, but one of my neighbors is really into the Rapture. Her son is 16 now but when he was 10 or so he was upset that the rapture was going to happen while he was a school or somewhere away from his mother he actually made himself sick. Wouldn't go to school or anything. Finally after about 6 months of this the grandparents took him to talk to some one. The mother wasn't happy, she had taken him to her pastor. Long story short he is better now, but still has some issues that I think stem for that whole experience.
(werewolf)
Q: How many Zen Buddhists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Two. One to screw it in, and one not to screw it in.
FAIL in the first sentence. The entire *concept* of Hell is inherently traumatizing to young children, who will constantly worry that they're not measuring up to impossible standards, and thus destroy any self-esteem they may have had to begin with. You people are fucking EVIL.
So, God can kill a soul, but chooses to torture it (and countless others) for eternity instead?
And you worship this being... why?
There's a difference between fear and hating yourself because some church weirdos blamed you for impossible made up sins against a loving god who hates you. Fear is useful to you, the other thing just benefits the sick adults around you. They confuse themselves with loving people because they're ultimately delusional through constant practice.
"I'm sorry but there really is no nice way to say this. If you fill your child's mind with images of Satan and the horrors of hellfire, you're a sick individual and you are mentally ill, and the only reason you don't know this is that you've been indulged for far too long by people and institutions that really ought to know better." -Pat Condell
"God is not like us..."
Actually, your god is exactly like you: petty, self-absorbed, temperamental and ignorant. That's why you cling to your god. Doing so gives you the feeling that these traits you possess aren't liabilities, they are holy duties.
And that is why sensible people stay far away from you and the god you shill for.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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