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Quote# 57728

Stephen Ambrose had a superb observation about the Germans, particularly the SS. On many occasions, they could be just as gallant and chivalrous with their enemies as the Allies. But when the Vaterland required something ungallant or unchivalrous, the SS didn't have to think twice. So if that meant killing every bed ridden wounded man in an Allied field hospital between two Allied beaches in Normandy, that's what got done. You can attribute their "reasoning" to their blind loyalty to the state. I attribute it to their absence of conscience, something that is much easier for an atheist, because the atheist does not need to reconcile his conscience to an all knowing Creator. An atheist is his own god.

Frank Natoli, http://www.spectator.org 55 Comments [2/1/2009 7:10:22 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Ryan
WTF?! || meh
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wackadoodle

Not satisfied to blame Athiests for Hitler, the entire SS now did not contain one Christian.

2/1/2009 7:11:36 AM

Skyknight

I don't think he realizes that he just put God in the same quandary as the last sentence's atheist...How do they keep missing that?

2/1/2009 7:14:22 AM

Dark_Lord_Prime

"I attribute it to their absence of conscience, something that is much easier for an atheist, because the atheist does not need to reconcile his conscience to an all knowing Creator. An atheist is his own god."

Alrighty, but what does that have to do with the Christian SS, following the orders of the Christian Hitler?

2/1/2009 7:18:08 AM

Zimmer

Godwin, you auto-lose.

I don't even fucking get this argument anymore. Tons of bad people get away with their actions all the time, with no 'divine judgment' whatsoever, and good people get stuck in shitty situations just as often, with no apparent 'divine help' to save them. From a logical point of view, there is no such thing as divine punishment or favor, only confirmation bias on the part of outside observers.

2/1/2009 7:31:12 AM

Thammuz

Hitler was a christian, any further comment is superfluous.

2/1/2009 8:16:14 AM

TheOutsider


2/1/2009 8:25:30 AM

atrasicarius

@TheOutsider

2/1/2009 8:29:32 AM

A Friend

Godwin. Eat shit and die. You lose. Not to mention that it seems like the only reason you don't go out and shoot people is because of your fear of the skydaddy. You lose again.

2/1/2009 8:30:15 AM

name

As many other people are quick to point out, why is God the only thing keeping him from murdering people. Is he one crisis of faith away from being the next Patric Bateman?

2/1/2009 8:32:09 AM

picklemonster

I thought he was going to make a point about how SS soldiers loyal to Hitler are like christians loyal to God (in that if God/Hitler tells them to do something, they'll do it without thinking), but no.

2/1/2009 8:42:21 AM

Jadehawk

*facepalm*

blind obedience is like freethinking.... how?

why do those idiots always miss the part where blind obedience to a higher power, any higher power, makes it easier to commit atrocities? After all they were just following (God's/the Fuhrer's/the Government's) orders

2/1/2009 8:47:36 AM

Random Man

"I attribute it to their absence of conscience, something that is much easier for an atheist"

You are not me. Don't pretend to be in my head.

"So if that meant killing every bed ridden wounded man in an Allied field hospital between two Allied beaches in Normandy"

I'm pretty sure that both sides did something like that.

"An atheist is his own god."

So by your own admission, we have to reconcile with ourselves. So your whole thing about having no conscioesness fails.

2/1/2009 9:24:38 AM

Beeblebrox

You can attribute their "reasoning" to their blind loyalty to the state. I attribute it to their absence of conscience, something that is much easier for an atheist, because the atheist does not need to reconcile his conscience to an all knowing Creator. An atheist is his own god.

There we go. I knew we had to be related to the Nazis somehow. Frankie, I find it almost incovceivable that you would compare a lack of theistic belief to the Holocaust. You are trivializing the near-genocide of the Jewish people, and frankly I find that kind of sub rosa anti-Semitism disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

2/1/2009 9:32:18 AM

solomongrundy

We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

Adolf Hitler
Berlin
24/10/1933

2/1/2009 9:49:37 AM

Pule Thamex

I know that if I was taken prisoner, I'd much rather by far that my captors were atheist rather than Christian fundamentalists like Hitler and the SS.

2/1/2009 9:52:23 AM

toothache

On the other hand, atrocities become far easier if you believe that you have God on your side.

2/1/2009 10:08:08 AM

atheist crusader

hmmmmm SS where atheist eh....

no that old chestnut. hey fella three words for you fresh from the belt buckles of ALL German troops

GOTT MITT UNS

for you ( as you're a retard) that is German for "god with us"

the SS would not have allowed atheists into the german armed forces as hitler wanted rid of atheism as it was seen as being rebelious!!!!

As for the Nazis being chivilrous, you tell that to my granddad, he killed loads of the buggers, and held the wide belief that the only good german was a dead one, because they where "animals"

so in terms of historical fail this has to be a large biblical flood scale fail, with fresh cream, hundreds and thousands, AND a cherry on the top.

2/1/2009 10:09:30 AM

aaa

Groan...

2/1/2009 11:04:08 AM

ixolite

@ TheOutsider + atheist crusader:

"Gott mit uns" is a really weak argument, since this was used already way prior to the Nazis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns

Anyway, the Nazis were neither atheist nor christian. They tried to create their own little germanic religion.

2/1/2009 11:16:59 AM

Psittacosis

The SS were gallant and chivalrous with their enemies? Citation definitely fucking needed.

Oh, and the point about Gott Mit Uns is not that the Nazis put it there, but that they didn't take it off.

2/1/2009 11:25:57 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

How fucking backwards can you get? The SS lacked conscience precisely because they were blindly loyal to the state (and probably composed of people inclined to amorality or immorality to begin with and thus easier to make blindly loyal to said state, making the arrangement self-reinforcing via positive feedback); similarly, fundies are blindly loyal to what they imagine their god demands. You can't simultaneously obey everything you're told to do by authority, unquestioningly and without being provided justification, and claim to have a conscience. With no god to define "morality" for them, their own consciences are all atheists like us have available!

Oh, yeah, Godwin.

2/1/2009 11:28:54 AM

????

If an athiest is his own God he won't have loyalty to the state. Your own statement contradicts yourself. Fail.

2/1/2009 11:32:17 AM

FMG

Atheists were sent to concentration camps since atheists are hard to control. They keep questioning things. They died alongside Jews, Homosexuals and Gypsies under the class of "asocials" and "political prisoners".


2/1/2009 11:44:11 AM

Punches Pilot

The SS lacked conscience precisely because they were blindly loyal to the state (and probably composed of people inclined to amorality or immorality to begin with and thus easier to make blindly loyal to said state, making the arrangement self-reinforcing via positive feedback); similarly, fundies are blindly loyal to what they imagine their god demands.

They were made up of the same cross-section of people as society at large, for the most part – including Christians and…whatever the hell those other guys were who claimed to worship the gods from Norse mythology.

Most of them didn’t lack conscience. They either ignored it, assuming the state knew better, or it was warped to such a degree that they mistook evil for good.

A lot of people make this mistake, assuming the presence of a conscience provides a sort of immunity to that level of insane xenophobia.

It doesn’t.

2/1/2009 11:56:56 AM

ausador



You lose.
Also, the nazis were almost all christian.
Thanks for playing though.

2/1/2009 11:59:47 AM
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