Is an atheist who practices pagan rituals a pagan? For example:
Mrs Jane believes that there is no god. She believes that you die and then
there's no conscience and total blackness (Annihilationism but no God for
anyone). Mrs Jane also celebrates her birthday every year, celebrates
Halloween, Valentines Day, St Patrick's day, April fools day, Christmas, and
every other man/demon made holiday.
Wouldn't this pretty much make her a Pagan Atheist?
Also what about a Christian who celebrates pagan holidays? Are they Pagan Christians?
63 comments
"Mrs Jane also celebrates her birthday every year, celebrates Halloween, Valentines Day, St Patrick's day, April fools day, Christmas, and every other man/demon made holiday."
Hmmm. On the one hand, Velyx actually acknowledges the pagan origins of Christmas(!!!), but then s/he screws up by incorrectly proclaiming that St. Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day are also pagan holidays (ironically, those are the only truly Christian holidays observed in North America).
I'll lay 3:1 that this sort of reasoning will get Velyx excommunicated from the RR-tards' flock.
It all depends on how "Mrs. Jane" is celebrating these holidays. If she's doing so like most other people, as a minor diversion from routine or an excuse to get together with people, then no. If she's adhering to pagan rituals/practices/whathaveyou intentionally, then yes, but she would also describe herself as such.
What's the question here? This seems self-evident, unless you don't follow any holiday traditions yourself.
I guess if celebrating holidays and birthdays is actually performing a pagan ritual, then celebrating them *could* make you a practicing pagan. What if you were just celebrating them for fun, not because you meant them? Would you be a false pagan?
(Ajax)
"Actually even those holidays have pagan influences. Four Leaf clovers bringing good luck and Leprechauns come from Irish pagan legends, and the whole idea of Cupid for Valentine's Day also has pagan roots. In Roman mythology he was the son of Venus and Mars."
*smiles happily* Thank you very much, for helping me learn something new today.
(@ JEWSDID9/11)
*sighs softly, then turns to the troll and speaks in the tone of voice reserved for young (and probably slow) children*
This is Fundies Say The Darndest Things. The place you want is Conspiracy Theorists Say The Darndest Things. Back out the door, down the hall, second door on your left. Buh-bye!
There are really only four true holy festivals whose observance was specifically ordered by God in the Bible: Pessach ("Passover", which has several components), Yom Kippur, Succoth and Rosh Hashana. Most Christians don't celebrate any of them.
Personally, I don't think we should be tied to the calendar to do things like get drunk, spend quality time with family, caring for the poor or needy in the community, or other things that are generally done on "holidays," but I have no problem doing them on those holidays, too...
Well, s/he has a point. If one claims to be an atheist, one has no business practicing Pagan religion. If one claims to be a Christian, one has no business practicing Pagan religion. Of course, it's really no business of mine.
No, it would mean that that person is an atheist who is taking pleasure in a pagan-oriented holiday. Just the same way that when you practice xmas, easter, etc., you're a xtian taking pleasure in a pagan holiday. The atheist is still an atheist, and the xtian is still a xtian. They just both like pagan holidays.
Also what about a Christian who celebrates pagan holidays? Are they Pagan Christians?
I have a feeling you celebrate Christmas, so look no further than yourself.
Birthdays are Pagan? Riiight.
Halloween... uh, remembering your friends, loved ones, and pets who've passed on isn't necessarily pagan. Dressing up and going door to door is based in Pagan traditions, yes, but let's face it: free goodies is a *good* *thing*.
Isn't St. Valentine one of yours?
April Fool's day came about because the original date of New Years used to be April 1st. When it changed, some people continued to celebrate it on 4/1, and were called "April Fools".
St. Patrick *was* one of yours -- he supposedly drove all the "snakes" (read: Druids) out of Ireland.
Christmas... ha ha you *wish* it was yours!
Well you need a history lesson (as does everyone on Rapture Ready). Valentine's day is regarding Cupid, the god of love, and your "cristmas" is nothing but a cheap knock-off of Yule, a pagan holiday that you simply twisted to covert the proud pagan people. So yes you are a Pagan Fundie, ah it does burn doesn't it? AH DIVERSITY! NO!!!
Well, if you want to get technical, a Pagan is anyone who isn't a practitioner of an Abrahamic faith, so yeah.
You're still stupid for thinking secular holidays are religious celebrations, though. It's not like anyone really worships Samhain any more.
It's not what you do, but why you do it. A person is whatever religious affiliation (or lack thereof) that they believe they are.
If you take Christmas as a holiday celebrating Jesus, you're Christian.
If you take Christmas purely as a holiday off work and as a public holiday, you're likely an atheist/agnostic/etc
if you take Christmas in terms of it's pagan roots, you're likely a pagan.
An "atheist who practices pagan rituals" probably isn't an atheist at all, but a Pagan. Almost all Pagans are theistic--they just don't worship *your* god. But if your Mrs. Jane really believes there is no god, then it is unlikely she is "practicing pagan rituals" in the course of celebrating the holidays you mentioned. I think you need to define a few of your terms before we can actually have any kind of conversation about this--how do you define "Pagan," "celebrate," and "ritual," for starters? Because really, you seem confused about just what those words mean. At least, the way you are using them is not adding up to anything that makes sense.
As far as "a Christian who celebrates pagan holidays," I'd say that just about par for the course.
And I'm almost starting to wonder if this is a Poe. Christians (and other non-Pagans) almost never properly capitalize "Pagan." Interesting.
I rest on Sundays, therefore I am Christian. I also take Saturdays off, so I guess I'm Jewish too.
To be honest I don't do much work on Fridays either, so I'm also a tad Muslim.
But if we look at my pasta-eating habits (as evidenced by my waist measurement)...
Gosh, I do hope you don't celebrate any Pagan gods by doing anything on the days of the week named for them (The Sun, The Moon, Tyr, Wodin, Thor, Freya, Saturn) or the months of the year named for them (Janus, Mars, Aphrodite, Maia, Juno). That would make you a pagan Christian.
"Halloween, Valentines Day, St Patrick's day"
As celebrated now they are all inventions of corporations wishing to sell cards and other products. Mothers Day? WTF Fathers Day? Ditto
Since all Christians celebrate rebranded pagan holidays, like Yule and Easter, you must all be 'Pagan Christians', then.
quote: Kuyohashi
Who the hell celebrates April Fool's Day?
I know plenty of websites that do, looking forward to seeing what Google and Thinkgeek cook up this year
Don't you have to worship or at least believe in those pagan gods, to be a pagan?
Celebrating ones birthday just means one is happy to have survived another year, and enjoying all the new knowledge and experiences that year has given one. Those of us who aren't wilfully ignorant, that is.
An atheist who is a pagan is not an atheist.
They are mutually exclusive, like an atheist creationist.
While atheistic Pagans exist this ramble is not proof that the average atheist is Pagan.
Most of the celebrations listed are secular. Yes, some of them have pre-Christian roots but a little something called time and the need to sell stuff changes everything.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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