As I’ve said before, evo-atheists want us to believe that most organisms that are born die before they reproduce, a la Malthus. What a damnable doctrine indeed. Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation. Nature is not “red in tooth and claw”.
The evo-atheists want us to accept Malthus because they want to be the ones to “cull the human herd” to stop the imaginary geometric growth that Malthus said would happen if reproduction were to be unchecked. They want to be the un-natural selectors of death for those they deem “unfit”
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"Nature is not red in tooth and claw."
Someday the lion may lay down with the lamb, until then I'm betting on the lion. - Robert Heinlein
Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation.
So close, and yet so far...
Hm,
a look into nature reveals a lot of these carnages. Often very pronounced, for example among several species of turtles, of whose kids only a small percentage survived till the age of reproduction.
We also experience an increasing growth of the "human herd", even if not necessarily geometric, especially thanks to sinking birth rates in western industrialized countries (where people use bith control to keep their families limited to usually 1-2 kids).
As for the "cruel and vicious god", one needs only to look into the bible to have the confirmation, that god (at least the god of the bible) is indeed cruel and vicious
Look at the average litter size of almost any animal and you will see this must be true.
Female polar bears, for example, produce a litter of 2 cubs every 2 years from about age 4 to age 25. That is, in her lifetime, an average PB produces about 20 cubs, half of which are females like her.
So in 25 years or so, 1 female polar bear becomes 10, in a century 1 female is the ancestor of 10,000 (plus an equal number of males), etc. In three centuries, a single female would be the great-great-great...grandmother of two trillion polar bears. No wonder the arctic ice is disappearing, it's sinking under the sheer weight of polar bears!
So the next time an evo-atheist tries to talk to you about "Globalic Warmitisation" or "Darwinialisticism", just shout "What about the trillions of polar bears in the arctic?!"
That'll shut them up.
"The evo-atheists want us to accept Malthus because they want to be the ones to “cull the human herd” to stop the imaginary geometric growth that Malthus said would happen if reproduction were to be unchecked."
Why do people get so uptight when they are told that breeding is ruining the planet? Come back when we're an endangered species and tell me unchecked breeding is good.
But we can see that nature is in fact 'red in tooth and claw'
@anevilmeme
In the Electronic Bible * the correct quote is
"The Iron will lay down with the Lamp"
*Courtesy Red Dwarf
"Evo-atheists want us to believe the Germans slaughtered not much less than 10 million people systematically during World War II. What a damnable doctrine indeed. Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation."
"Evo-atheists want us to believe that easily preventable disease and malnutrition kill millions of ordinary people a year in Africa. What a damnable doctrine indeed..."
"Evo-atheists want us to believe that everyone inevitably dies, some of us from gruesome accidents or unpleasant illnesses. What a damnable doctrine indeed..."
These isn't a hole in the ground deep enough for this ostrich's head.
"Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation."
Even fundies stumble upon logic once in a while, though they may not realize it.
All very interesting except for a couple of slight inaccuracies. One, god doesn't exist. Two, the biblical god, wholly invented by men, is indeed cruel and vicious.
Your user name should be ToGodBeTheGory.
"As I’ve said before, evo-atheists want us to believe that most organisms that are born die before they reproduce, a la Malthus. What a damnable doctrine indeed. Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation. Nature is not “red in tooth and claw”. "
Facts are stubborn things.
As I’ve said before, evo-atheists want us to believe that most organisms that are born die before they reproduce, a la Malthus. What a damnable doctrine indeed. Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation. Nature is not “red in tooth and claw”
This guy would have a great time at the beach when the turtles are hatching. Praising God every time one of His helpful birds of the air swooped down to help yet another hatchling into the ocean...
"Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation"
No, he just wants all that carnage for himself. Look no further than the OT. And Revelations, of course.
Carnivores in the wild hunt to EAT. Their digestive tracts aren't designed for a vegetarian diet. We humans learned to domesticate certain animals as part of our diet. We eat vegetables too. But at least we don't go around killing & eating other humans. We're civilised.
"the imaginary geometric growth"
Why do you think China has a 'One Child' policy? Even they realise their population is too big, and have taken this measure to control it at least. But I think we in the West could do with controlling our populations too, with compulsory sterilisation. But only amongst fundies.
As I’ve said before, evo-atheists want us to believe that most organisms that are born die before they reproduce, a la Malthus. What a damnable doctrine indeed. Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation. Nature is not “red in tooth and claw”.
They do. If He existed, He would be. It is.
Feel free to watch Nature, or is that full of damnable doctrines, too?
So, when Jesus returns and the sword of the Lord is doing its thing, killing everyone who is not fit to enter Heaven, that is... NOT culling the herd?
tgbtg, you seem to be well aware of the facts. Withal, your contortionist blame game is somewhat entertaining.
But yes, your god is a cruel and vicious bronze-age hallucination.
I'm an evo-atheist, and I'm pretty sure I have no clue what the crap he's talking about.
But then, I guess that's part of the conspiracy. Deny, deny, deny.
@Illuminatalie
We are Devo. D-E-V-O.
Nature is not “red in tooth and claw”.
-Yeah, it is. It does make you wonder about your God though...
Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation.
But he does (see fish and insects, for example). So you've said it yourself.
People, including Darwin himself, have made the same observation about the parasitic ichneuman fly (actually a wasp), which paralyzes caterpillars and lays its eggs in them so the wasp's larvae can eat them alive and fresh from the inside out. Reverend Francis Henry, an early 19th century theologian, rationalized it by saying "it abridges, and almost annihilates ... the misery of disease, and accidental injuries, and lingering decay; and impose such salutary restraint upon excessive increase of numbers, that the supply of food maintains perpetually a due ratio to the demand." (I guess he never read Candide ...)
In other words, our "loving" God is actually doing us a favor! He's clearing out the excess so the rest of us can enjoy life without the scourge of overpopulation. [/sarcasm]
Let's round up the examples of Nature being 'red in tooth and claw' in one place and list biological systems where organisms die before they have a chance to reproduce :-
- Sea turtle hatching
- Salmon spawning, in fact fish spawning in general. See caviar.
- Egg-eating snakes
- Monitor lizards (dig up egg mounds in Oz)
- Periodic cycle Cicadas have literally no defence mechanisms they just overwhelm the predators.
- Annual migration of wildebeest and zebras, most of the newborns don't make it.
- 'March of the Penguins'
- Cuckoos
- Many birds lay several eggs, in times of food shortage only the strongest survive.
- Wasps that lay eggs *inside* the larvae of other insects.
- Male lions kill the infant offspring of the previous males when taking over a pride.
- Most of the fruits, nuts and grain ever eaten is a plant that failed to reproduce.
Finally:
Before the twentieth century even humans had a less than 50% chance of surviving to breed. As someone else said: the reason that the earth is overpopulated is not because we're breeding like rabbits but because we've stopped dying like flies.
"Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God if He allowed that kind of carnage to exist in His Creation."
*chuckles* I think this guy might actually be close to "getting it." If there is a God, there's no particular reason to think he'd be nice.
"Nature is not “red in tooth and claw”."
Yes it is, quite often.
Most marine animals end up in another animal's stomach. On land, the young and larva are the first to be eaten by others. A tree may produce thousands of seeds. Only a few will sprout, and only a few of the seedlings will become saplings and full-grown to go to seed on their own. It's a cruel world. Deal with it.
Darwin got much of his theory from the ideas of Malthus, yes. And don't worry about humans culling the population when there gets to be too many of us, ToGodBeTheGlory. Nature will handle that just fine all by itself.
Yawwwwn.
On the recent entries page right now, we have "evo-atheists" (as in this one), "darwiniacs", "Evo-cultists", "Darwin cult", "Temple of Darwinian Materialism" and who knows what else.
I'm starting to get a tad bit irritated. Why do they get away with these weird names? How can they (sorry, forgot the source of the joke) get away with pronouncing such long and multisyllablic words with exact same bluntness and loathing tone as they would pronounce the word "scum"?
Seriously, I wish they would stop it. This is similar, but much worse, than 10-year-old new, bright-eyed open source advocates spouting stuff about "Micro$oft". Kids can, after all, learn. Why don't these people?
"As I’ve said before, evo-atheists want us to believe that most organisms that are born die before they reproduce, a la Malthus."
Because that's what *does* happen. Reality, liberal bias, etc...
Nature is red in tooth and claw on this planet.
And to paraphrase Woody Allen, the lion will lie down with the lamb, but the lamb will be very nervous.
"They want to be the un-natural selectors of death for those they deem “unfit” "
Is this a stealth Godwin? Anyway, if nature isn't red in tooth and claw then go for a 50-mile walk naked through your nearest jungle.
Edit: @Porky Pine: Thomas Malthus , late 18th/early 19th century economist who popularised the idea that unchecked population growth might actually not be a good idea.
God would be cruel and vicious indeend if he allowed that kind of carnage....
Should someone on that site be providing him with a list of apparently "allowable" atrocities that have occured even recently?
First, this deserves a huge WTF, and second:
Anybody can see that God would be a cruel and vicious God
That's all you really had to say in order for this to look reasonable and thought out. But you had to fuck it up with the rest of this nonsense.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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