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#939294
Zoo
Yeah. . . no. There's no need to stick a god in where we don't currently understand something. I don't suppose you've noticed all the gaps we've filled with natural explanations and booted God out of them (and we've picked up the pace recently because understanding the filling for one hole often leads to understanding what fills other holes, and so on). Until we have evidence that the way to understand some particular thing is a god, we can be perfectly satisfied with "I don't know yet".
4/13/2009 7:02:33 PM
#939295
Old Viking
They try so hard ... so hard.
4/13/2009 7:05:13 PM
#939306
WMDKitty
Oh, FFS... ::facepalm:: ::sigh::
4/13/2009 7:33:01 PM
#939310
Doomie 22
So when we don't know something yet we should just say goddidit and call it a day. Right.
4/13/2009 7:50:27 PM
#939314
Ouabache
Oh fer fuck sake. Self pwnage.
4/13/2009 8:07:14 PM
#939320
EPIC
LOGIC
FAIL
Atheists do NOT make an extraordinary claim. The extraordinary claim is made by Christians, by claiming there is a god. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Proving that there is no god: impossible. This is true. However, similarly, proving that there IS a god: impossible. If we have no evidence for a god, there's not reason to believe in one. If you can prove there IS one, then sure, we'll believe it. Until then, GB2RAPTUREREADY, CHRISTFAG.
4/13/2009 9:02:28 PM
#939332
Horsefeathers
"The militant atheist is out to try to tear down Christianity."
I wouldn't know. I've never met one. I've run across a couple of atheists who were just as stark raving mad as some of you Christians though. Is that what you're referring to?
"And while this is an obvious threat, they're headstrong attack is so forward that they're laying all the cards on the table. For instance, they're in such a forward attack mode that they try and present all their arguments so it is easy for a Christian to find their arguments, read them thoughtfully and come up with responses."
That's how rational debate is supposed to work you idiot.
Cloaking your side's argument in inane gibberish about "Trinities" and "Holy Ghosts" or all that creationism bullshit is the wrong way to debate.
"Another great thing about butting heads with the militant atheist is that it is a great time to witness for Jesus. It can be tough to bring up the topic of Jesus in conversation with your average individual, but the militant atheist begs to bring up the discussion of God."
Witnessing to an atheist, "militant" or not, is probably going to be as fruitful as you might imagine.
"So, one thing that I've noticed a weak point in the atheist's arguments is that they need to explain everything everywhere in every time in order to even begin to argue that God does not exist."
Say what?
"For if you can't explain everything everywhere in every time, God may have been the one doing it."
Oh, good god. How fucking simple can you be? That's not an argument--that's a hell of a lot of typing to do just to say "Goddidit!"
"The obvious examples to this are the origin of life and the origin of the universe. There is no explanation in science about the origin of life or the origin of the universe therefore as far as science knows, it could be in the realm of God."
There's explanations and supporting evidence for both of those things being perfectly natural. Granted, it's still a bit early to say they've got either right but their attempts at answers are far better than "Goddidit!"
"The Christian says to the atheist,"I know God created the universe. How do you think it was made?""
I have a standard answer when the religious tell me, conclusively and absolutely, that they know their god did something which is:
No, you do not know it. You may think you know it and you may even believe it, but you do not know any such thing.
As far as what I "believe" about the origins of the universe, well, belief doesn't enter into it. I accept the current--or at least the most recent that I've heard--explanation. I accept it because a lot of very intelligent people who have spent a good portion of their lives both studying and gathering data for their explanation say that's what happened. If I asked nicely they'd even let me see their data. Not that I'd understand it, but it's there for anyone who wants to check it which is far more than can be said for your "evidence" of your god doing it.
"The atheist says,"I do not know how the universe was made, but do you know how God is made? " The Christian says,"I do not need to know how God was made to have faith in him. You however need to be able to explain everything everywhere in every time before you can argue that God cannot exist.""
I'm sure you think you've got some sort of iron clad reasoning going there, right? Head over to IIDB.org (freeratio.org now, apparently...) and try it out. Get your stopwatch out so you can time how long it takes them to bury you in data and reason.
"It is like a corollary to the god of gaps theory. Wikipedia likes to play the god of gaps as a weakness of Christian faith when it is really a weakness in atheism."
I believe the psychiatrists call this particular habit "projection".
4/13/2009 10:00:30 PM
#939339
aaa
I sense a fallacy. A big one.
4/13/2009 10:25:21 PM
#939343
Clown
Back in the 50's, scientists didn't know how our own little star called Sol was producing energy. But, did they said "Goddidit!" and ended the story? No, they didn't. They said "We don't know yet, but we'll figure it out eventually.". And they did. Nuclear fusion (or was it fision?:)).
Now, think about the alternative.
Scientist:"How does Sun produce energy?"
Quazi-scientist: "God does it!"
Scientist:"OK, then... How much energy can God produce? Why does God produce energy? How? Can we replicate it in the lab? And, while we're there, define God."
And that, my friend, is "The God of the Gaps" argument in a nutshell.
4/13/2009 10:56:51 PM
#939352
HoJuSimpson
The Christian says,"I do not need to know how God was made to have faith in him.
LMAO wtf? Is this person for real?
4/14/2009 12:15:43 AM
#939354
Paschal Wagner
The militant atheist is out to try to tear down Christianity.
He is? What's his name?
4/14/2009 12:39:17 AM
#939356
Mrs. Antichrist
The militant atheist is out to try to tear down Christianity.
Most of us don't give a damn about Christianity or any other religion, as long as you don't try to force it on the rest of us via creating religiously inspired laws.
they try and present all their arguments so it is easy for a Christian to find their arguments, read them thoughtfully and come up with responses.
We present all of our arguments because we're not as lazy as creationists, who post one sentence replies that lack any backing evidence or copy and paste articles that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. We've already heard and debunked every counterpoint creationists have made, which is why we include all of that in there too in the hope that we won't have to deal with the same idiotic statements we heard the last time we argued with one of you wackjobs.
it is really a weakness in atheism.
Logic says otherwise, sweetpea.
4/14/2009 1:08:00 AM
#939359
Can I have that translated into English please?
4/14/2009 1:31:30 AM
#939360
Paler_Face
The militant atheist is out to try to tear down Christianity.
That's Christopher Hitchens, and he doesn't limit himself to christianity, but he goes after all religion.
And while this is an obvious threat, they're headstrong attack is so forward that they're laying all the cards on the table. For instance, they're in such a forward attack mode that they try and present all their arguments so it is easy for a Christian to find their arguments, read them thoughtfully and come up with responses
So, why doesn't any apologetic come up with good rebuttals for the atheist attacks? Could it be that the atheists are actually right?
Another great thing about butting heads with the militant atheist is that it is a great time to witness for Jesus. It can be tough to bring up the topic of Jesus in conversation with your average individual, but the militant atheist begs to bring up the discussion of God.
And then the atheist crushes your feeble Jeebus tales with his superior knowledge of your own bloody faith, and simple, cold, hard logic and reason.
The rest of fundy rant
The God of the gaps is a terrible argument. Even if a god somewhere does something, it's still unlikely to be your specific god.
Also, throughout the history of science, everything that was once contributed to a god, and that we now have a better understanding of, turned out to not be the work of a god. I think this trend will continue.
4/14/2009 1:33:21 AM
#939368
LDM
"The militant atheist is out to try to tear down Christianity."
And the militant christian is trying to strip everyone else of their religious freedom, what's your point?
4/14/2009 2:24:33 AM
#939372
Xotan
Yawn!
4/14/2009 2:36:34 AM
#939373
And while this is an obvious threat, they're headstrong attack is so forward that they're laying all the cards on the table. For instance, they're in such a forward attack mode that they try and present all their arguments so it is easy for a Christian to find their arguments, read them thoughtfully and come up with responses.
Yes, in a debate the sensible thing to do is intentionally make obscure arguments and continually shift the goalposts to confuse your opponent, rather than actually presenting them in a straightforward, logical manner.
I suppose this is certainly one area where Christians have an advantage...
4/14/2009 3:05:51 AM
#939386
Thundersqueaks
So, atheists have to provide answers for everything everywhere, including evidence that your unproven god doesn't exist? But all you have to do is claim you have faith?
You like rigging the cards, eh, James?
4/14/2009 4:45:23 AM
#939388
Mister Spak
"So, one thing that I've noticed a weak point in the atheist's arguments is that they need to explain everything everywhere in every time in order to even begin to argue that God does not exist. For if you can't explain everything everywhere in every time, God may have been the one doing it."
You can't explain it in one sentence, therefore goddiddit!!! Jesus wins again!!!!!
"The Christian says,"I do not need to know how God was made to have faith in him. You however need to be able to explain everything everywhere in every time before you can argue that God cannot exist." " thereby demonstrating his retardedness.
4/14/2009 4:58:21 AM
#939412
whiskey tango foxtrot
Its like a corollary of FAIL!
4/14/2009 6:23:51 AM
#939423
a mind far far away
I almost stopped reading after the first paragraph, but decided to go on. I'm glad I did. This idiot has apparently never heard of the Big Bang or abiogenesis. This is one of the worst arguments for god that I've ever heard. And how does the "god of the gaps" theory work when those gaps are fast closing by explanations that don't need god to work?
4/14/2009 7:14:57 AM
#939449
breakerslion
DiscoBerry wins the Internets!
JamesSager3 wins the Delusional Lackwit Award for attempting to shift the burden of proof with the worst God-of-the-gaps argument ever.
4/14/2009 9:07:53 AM
#939481
Arts_Myth
It can clearly be proven that I had not yet been born when Kennedy was assassinated. Therefore it was you, JamesSager3, who killed the president!
4/14/2009 11:23:21 AM
#939488
Syb
That there's also no evidence that God *doesn't* exist, which is basically what this boils down to, is not necessarily a horrible argument against people who say that any sort of religious belief is unacceptable. But in using it, you open up any religious belief as being equally acceptable. Whether it's the Christian God or the FSM or Allah or anything else; any of them could have done it. It's basically a defensive position, rather than an offensive position, which means trying to witness through it is fundamentally stupid.
I do love that this guy misses that the two people quoted (at least, wikis being wikis, right now) in Wikipedia's criticism section on the "god of the gaps" article, are BOTH CHRISTIANS.
4/14/2009 11:54:12 AM
#939489
Norse Pagan
The Militant Atheist. Is he on it again? :-P
"It can be tough to bring up the topic of Jesus in conversation with your average individual..." How come? Is the average individual tired of your ongoing chatter about Jebus? Everybody leaves when you start ranting? Poor you...
Metaphorically speaking; yes, God might have done it, as "god" is the explanation people have used since the dawn of selfawareness, in myths and legends. But as soon as you know what really happened, the concept of a "god" looses its meaning. Maybe that's why you hate evolution and science, it makes your precious God obsolete.
4/14/2009 11:57:16 AM
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