I don't think so. Babies can be aborted up until term. That means that viability and developed nervous systems (can experience pain) mean nothing to the killers. Proving that the babies ARE babies and have a human face earlier in gestation may help some hearts to be changed, but most won't. If a person is comfortable killing (torturing to death) a term infant, they are definitely not going to have a problem with killing a younger one.
Odd that some of these people have problems with killing animals for food (even fish, bugs, worms), but no problem whatsoever with the killing of human babies. These people worry over the declawing of a cat, but think abortion is ok.
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Odd that some of these people have no problems with killing pregnet Islamic women and children, but are horrified at the thought of a woman exercising her right to decide what to do with her body. These people worry over the independence of the individual, but think killing the inocents of a forgien country is ok.
Fixed your spelling for you.
Odd that some of these people have problems with killing animals for food (even fish, bugs, worms), but no problem whatsoever with the killing of human babies. These people worry over the declawing of a cat, but think abortion is ok.
Because the afforementioned animals feel pain, and a bunch of cells....don't? Just maybe?
"But while that procedure may only happen super-rarely to save the whining, blubbering "I'm a-scared to die!" mother's life, outlawing it is an important first step towards a glorious future where the exit to all your mischievous little hoo-hoos will be heavily patrolled by men in long black robes."http://whitehouse.georgewbush.org/firstlady/partial-birth-ban.asp
And do you know WHY late-term abortion is available as a medical procedure???
Because some fetuses have horrific birth defects that would kill them soon after birth or condemn them to a short life of nothing but pain and misery.
Because some fetuses are so profoundly retarded that they would never have the ability to do anything but lie in a bed for the rest of their lives.
Because some fetuses die late in the pregnancy AND WE HAVE TO GET THEM OUT SO THE MOTHERS DON'T DIE TOO.
Terminating the existence of a non-sentient organism that is so damaged that it cannot survive outside the womb is not cruel.
Cutting off your fingers down to the first knuckle (because that's basically what declawing a cat is like) IS cruel, except in rare severe cases where the cat cannot be controlled any other way.
Do you get it now, fuckwad???
All states have term limits for abortions and I'm hard-pressed to believe a "pro-lifer" doesn't know that, so that's a LIE right off the bat.
These people aren't the slightest bit fussed about killing and torturing real people, just cells and blastocysts.
Necro VMX: You do realize that eating insects IS standard operating procedure in some parts of the world, yes? Ants in Mesoamerica and caterpillars in South Africa spring to mind...
I can understand reticence over abortion after four months or so, but before that...Um, we're not picking up any brain activity. What evidence, then, is there that the soul has latched on? I know I can't figure out what the difference between the mind and the soul is supposed to be...(I know most of you don't acknowledge the soul, but we might as well make arguments in line with their understandings, yes?)
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, "babies" can only be aborted near the end of term if there is a risk to the mother - thanks to all the "Danglers" out there that think it is their right to impose their opinions on my body.
Oh, and declawing a cat is mean, but we learned that after study... funny how study also shows us when there is discernible brain activity, meaning pain sensations. Soooooo... we could use SCIENCE! to determine when "vitality" actually occurs, but it doesn't matter a bit to you freaks.
I eat meat, and I want to try those fried crickets they sell in the pacific like popcorn. I figure if my geckos love them that much, they must be good.
JUST SAY NO TO SEX WITH PRO LIFERS
Hey, I'm a reasonable person. I'm not big on late-term abortions myself. I figure that up to 25 weeks the fetus is fair game; after that point, it should be restricted unless there is a serious problem such as fatal birth defects or something.
Why 25 weeks? That's a good benchmark for the first measurable brain activity, and I (and others) feel that it is a reasonable point to consider a fetus an actual person. I don't consider a fetus a person before that point. Because it's not. It's much more a parasite. And a woman has every right to get rid of that parasite until it becomes a person.
By the by, you remember when abortion was legalized? Did you know that at the time where those aborted fetuses would have been getting to their late teens and early adulthood, crime rates started to drop significantly? Maybe those unwanted fetuses were prevented from becoming a drain on society. Just food for thought.
Hey fuckhead, the pro choice side just thinks that woman should be able to make decisions concerning their OWN bodies. You, your fundie friends, and the government should fuck off. It's a personal decision. It's not murder. You want to help little kids. Stop your bitching and adopt one.
[Odd that some of these people have problems with killing animals for food (even fish, bugs, worms), but no problem whatsoever with the killing of human babies. These people worry over the declawing of a cat, but think abortion is ok.]
Odd that some of these people have problems with killing fetuses, but have no problem whatsoever with the killing of Muslims. These people worry about aborting a fetus, but think torture is okay.
Yeah, and the starving, abused children in the US and elsewhere don't matter squat. Once they're born, who gives a shit about them.
Face it, you freaks don't care about real humans--you just want to impose your damn stupid religious opinions on the rest of us.
And learn a little about the animal rights movement before you say we only care about animals!
Uhh, no. If a fetus is viable, then I consider it too late to abort unless there is significant risk to the mother's life, or it would be kinder to end the suffering of what would otherwise be a severely disabled baby that would be in a lot of pain. I'm not a monster like you RRers seem to think we are.
Oh, and by the way... OM NOM NOM. I'll eat chicken or steak any day. :P
"These people worry over the declawing of a cat, but think abortion is ok."
I thought we were free from the dreaded strawman.
The pain response is not evidence of the higher cognitive functioning that sets Homo sapiens above (most) of the other animals. If they're going to use it as a measuring stick then they shouldn't just be speaking out against abortion. They should be vegetarians. Indeed they should be behaving like Jainist monks, refusing even to swat flies, which also have a pain response.
I am having trouble what this point you describe as "Term" is. It can't mean right up until before birth because No, you cannot abort a fetus up until birth. You can only abort in the first trimester I believe. If by Term you mean the second trimester then they aren't really a baby until after that point, so shut up.
Odd that most of the ultra-religious pro-lifers despise abortion in all it's forms when done by a human, but regard all the baby killings by God to be perfectly fine only because God did them. These people will cringe at gruesome pictures of abortions, but celebrate God smiting all the firstborn in Egypt.
[1] Third trimester abortions are extremely rare.
[2] There's no "baby" until after birth. Do you know what a dictionary is?
[3] I'm sure it's safe to say you're pro-Iraq and pro-death penalty.
@ szaleniec
I agree. I think the reason that the sensation of pain is used as a meter stick for measuring when not to abort a fetus perhaps has to do with a couple of reasons: (1) people think that feeling pain is equivalent to human cognition (it isn't really any better than that of any other animal), or (2) the pain is experienced by a human being, and this is in and of itself reason to not abort since causing pain to other humans is wrong. Of course, argument (2) isn't really valid since it assumes that anything with human DNA is automatically human, so that means abortions should never take place no matter what, even when you only have an embryo since that itself has human DNA and is thus "human."
I think that it's important to abort before higher human consciousness comes into play. When this occurs seems to be hard to measure however. The thing is, if we abort before the fetus can feel pain then we are bertainly aborting before the fetus becomes humanly conscious so it isn't a bad measure as to when to abort at all.
Well, since declawing a cat is the *exact same* as removing the last joint of *every finger*, and it removes the cat's natural defenses, which *hurts the cat*.
Expelling an unwanted (and frankly, parasitic) blob of tissue, on the other hand, doesn't hurt anyone.
And yet you people basically masturbate over torture.
My mom had my cat declawed, against my protests. My cat was in pain for quite some time.
Uhm. . . just because they can be doesn't mean pro-choice people think they should be. Most would consider that extremely unethical.
As to food animals and declawing cats, food animals and cats are fully developed beings that can suffer from how humans treat them. There is no comparison here.
I see the signs on the highway spouting this bullshit, yet when I looked up the laws in Canada you can have an abortion up to 12 weeks as an office procedure, 12-16 weeks you have to go in front of a panel and it's a hospital procedure, and after 16 weeks only done in emergency cases.
But it doesn't stop your bullshit, does it.
I personally think 16 weeks is too far along.
I'd like to see it brought down to three months, maybe two.
I lol'ed at this. Funny how people matter to fundies until they are born, then if they are LBTGQ, female, another religion, non-white, foreign, any socially-designated "Other", don't agree with fundies or they are of a political position fundies don't like, it's totes okay to be violent and/or oppressive toward them.
They will lose, no matter how hard the fight, kick and scream, abortion is just another birth (preventing birth) control method they will be forced to accept like condoms, the pill, the morning after pill and so on.
It's always the way, inch by inch, religion is dragged along by the times until it is brought up to the moral code of 20 years ago.
It's time we dropped this dead weight from our society.
Welcome to the backwards fantasy universe of Rapture Ready. Where all that is wrong is right and all that is right is wrong.
However, praise be to the WWW for allowing the world to see the utter degeneracy of the Rapture Ready God-zombies. As well as providing a titter here and there, Rapture Ready twerps amaze with their appalling disregard of humanity and lack of compassion in their approach to living.
See, the thing is... even if a foetus COULD feel pain, at the moment of abortion, it won't. Abortions are conducted under general anaesthetic, and thanks to the umbilical cord, if the woman's out cold, so's her parasite.
On full term abortions: it is not legal, except in extreme cases,you idot.
On the vegetarian thing: I don't eat bugs, nor did I when I ate meat, because it's gross!
It's odd that fundies are so obessed with fetuses (fetii?) yet once that umbilical cord is cut, they couldn't care less about him. Unless it's a girl, then they want to make sure they control every aspect of her life.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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