Quote# 62722

As for the Treaty of Tripoli---it was in arabic and Congress didn't have too much choice in ratifying it, they were the ones crying uncle. And again, government =/= nation.

The treaty of Paris, the one that actually established the United States, begins with "In the name of the most Holy and undivided Trinity"

Quailman, Y! answers 29 Comments [5/30/2009 1:34:11 AM]
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Doesn't matter--treaties are constitutional law according to your own Constitution.

5/30/2009 1:35:20 AM

"government =/= nation"

So you're saying a nation with a communist government isn't communist?

5/30/2009 1:41:20 AM

Martha Jones

Did...did someone fail social studies?

5/30/2009 1:48:09 AM


Actually, Quailman,

The United States was established in 1776 (seven years before the Treaty of Paris) and was recognized as sovereign by Great Brittan in 1782 (two years before the treaty). Thus the Treaty of Paris in no way actually established the United States, nor does it declare us a Christian nation. Therefore, the subsequent treaty (the Treaty of Tripoli), which firmly states we are a secular nation, would take precedent.

Finally, I must demand that you relinquish your user name as you are a disgrace to Doug fans everywhere.

On a side note, he is correct that nation doesn't have to mean government, but it really a semantic wiggle-word argument that gets no where when you realize that the cultural connotations of our "nation" have no bearing on the laws of our "state."

5/30/2009 2:49:55 AM

The treaty of Tripoli is IN ENGLISH. That it was signed in Tripoli has nothing to do with the language. And second, governments are the backbone of nations. Please, come back to school.

5/30/2009 2:54:40 AM

Concerned Brit

Typical Fundie response, "I don't like that bit because it costs me credibility and doesn't further my assertions, therefore I'll try to discredit and ignore it"

Next think you know they'll be doing it with their holy text!

Wait... o_O! /hangoverfuelledsarcasm

5/30/2009 3:44:02 AM


Without government, nation is nothing.

5/30/2009 3:57:10 AM

Pule Thamex

I note you've chosen part of your name well. You quail before the fictions of demented goat molesters but are you a man? Not sure.

5/30/2009 5:01:52 AM


I like how an arbic treaty could never possibly be translated, but the French one was perfectly legible.

5/30/2009 5:23:59 AM


Even if that is the case, it was tradition then. Much like referring to the date as the year of our Lord 1776.

5/30/2009 5:30:31 AM


Reading over the treaty I think that part is referring to George III

5/30/2009 6:36:51 AM


I can't read Arabic, but I can and have read the Treaty of Tripoli.

Splain that to me, Lucy.

5/30/2009 7:22:40 AM

Mister Spak

"The treaty of Paris, the one that actually established the United States, "


5/30/2009 8:08:14 AM


Um... the nation wasn't even founded, really, when that was signed. The Constitution wasn't even ratified until 1787. Therefore, the Treaty of Paris has no bearing on the formation and character of the nation or government of the United States.

Furthermore, the nations with whom we did sign the treaty were all Catholic nations which would require such things to be written in.

Additionally, such statements were often used out of tradition rather than as declarations of faith and fealty to your silly god thing.

5/30/2009 8:45:44 AM


@Vepser: *high-fives!*

... man, I miss Doug.

5/30/2009 9:09:45 AM


Do you really think that those who signed the treaty signed something they couldn't read?

5/30/2009 9:26:35 AM


A law proclaiming the United States to not be a Christian nation doesn't make the U.S. not a Christian nation.

A law which says nothing about whether or not the U.S. is a Christian nation, but does have some fluff about how awesome Yahweh is, does make the U.S. a Christian nation.

Makes perfect sense.

(And I'm not sure the Treaty of Paris carries the full weight of law since it was ratified under the Articles of Confederation rather than the Constitution. Not that it matters, since the Treaty said nothing about the religious affiliation of the U.S. And we have the Establishment Clause.)

5/30/2009 10:49:03 AM


So you're for Anarchy?

5/30/2009 11:55:28 AM


The Treaty of Tripoli is in English and Arabic. Interestingly enough, the part about the US not being a Christian nation only appeared in the English version, not the Arabic version.

5/30/2009 12:21:34 PM

Old Viking

There was a cook book in Arabic that was very popular here in the colonies. Among other things it had a recipe for hot cross buns.

5/30/2009 12:39:31 PM


Epic history fail.

5/30/2009 12:42:09 PM



5/30/2009 1:37:41 PM

It was in Arabic?! That's a new one...

5/30/2009 1:38:40 PM


Okay, then let's look at the first amendment where it clearly mentions the separation of church and state.

5/30/2009 3:55:48 PM

Reverend Jeremiah

Look..why not just cut the bullshit and just tell everyone how you think they should live their lives.

5/30/2009 5:26:47 PM

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