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Quote# 63323

Let's engage in fantasy for a moment like Darwinists do and pretend that the bible wasn't written by God but by a fallible human author, particularly a fiction novelist since the secular world claims that the bible is fiction.

Would you argue and fight about words in a fiction book and try to change the words in it? How much time would you spend trying to change the ending of "Little red Riding Hood" to make the "Big Bad Wolf" into a good guy?

If a fiction author said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemned you to hell, would you get furious and slander the author?

Of course not...unless you had some kind of mental disorder. Yet that's what the secular world tries to do with the bible that they claim is fiction. So either the secular world is so deluded that they can't tell fact from fantasy, or they know deep inside that the bible is the infallible Word of God, or both.

That's called suppression. Suppression is when someone consciously tries to deny something he knows to be true in his sub-conscience. An example of that is an alcoholic who is drunk most of his life and denies that he as a drinking problem.

I've asked this same question before to atheists and their response was;

"We're not afraid of the bible, we're afraid of Christians who believe the bible.'

My response to them is; Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)? Are you afraid of the fans of Harry Potter books? And better yet, do you curse the "Big Bad Wolf", Darth Vader or any other fiction character you consider a villain? If they tried to convince you that those books are true, would you argue with them? Or would you dismiss them as lunatics?

So sorry, but trying to change the words of a book you claim is fiction betrays your real knowledge that you know the bible was written by God and is thus, true.

So God is right, as always, in Romans 1:18, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godless men who have suppressed the truth by their wickedness." That it is.

So instead of trying to prove God wrong or think you know better than God does, you would fare much better if you listened to Him because only He can determine your ultimate fate.


peace4ever, Christian Forums 100 Comments [6/19/2009 8:23:29 PM]
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Submitted By: Amanda D.
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Painful

Epic fail of "believing" fiction. Trekkies do not BELIEVE Star Trek is real. But maybe you do.

6/19/2009 8:27:36 PM



We don't HAVE to argue against other works of fiction, because people generally don't argue that those things are real.

6/19/2009 8:39:56 PM

LabCreatedRuby

Well, unless the Trekkies all band together and start lobbying for the government to pass laws requiring everyone to speak Klingon, or the Potter fans begin rounding up non-fans into "Muggle" and "Mudblood" concentration camps, I don't think I have much to be concerned about.

You nutjobs with YOUR book of fairy tales, on the other hand...

6/19/2009 8:41:50 PM

dreadreckoning

I would argue about those fantasies if people fooled themselves into believing them to be fact as people do with the fantasies related to any religion.

6/19/2009 8:42:16 PM

BreeStar

My response to them is; Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)? Are you afraid of the fans of Harry Potter books? And better yet, do you curse the "Big Bad Wolf", Darth Vader or any other fiction character you consider a villain? If they tried to convince you that those books are true, would you argue with them? Or would you dismiss them as lunatics?

Methinks that piece0shit is on to something here.

6/19/2009 8:43:06 PM



If a fiction author said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemned you to hell, would you get furious and slander the author?

Of course not...unless you had some kind of mental disorder. Yet that's what the secular world tries to do with the bible that they claim is fiction. So either the secular world is so deluded that they can't tell fact from fantasy, or they know deep inside that the bible is the infallible Word of God, or both.


And yet there are Christians who get so beyond worked up over things like that involving other religions. I just read a quote on another site where this woman supposedly went nuts and started ranting about Jesus because someone wished her Happy Hanukkah.

My response to them is; Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)? Are you afraid of the fans of Harry Potter books?

Actually, yes, some of those fans are down right scary.

If they tried to convince you that those books are true, would you argue with them? Or would you dismiss them as lunatics?

It depends on the situation. Sometimes I would dismiss them as absolutely insane and not worth bothering with, other times I'd engage them in conversation (perhaps to regret it later). My response to fundies is about the same, only I've gotten to the point where I dismiss fundies almost entirely in my real life and if I bother at all, it is online only. At least this way I can just stop replying when their stupidity becomes too much to take.

So sorry, but trying to change the words of a book you claim is fiction betrays your real knowledge that you know the bible was written by God and is thus, true.

Who's trying to change the words in the bible? You mean when there are issues over translation?

6/19/2009 8:47:16 PM

Philbert McAdamia


BreeStar
Methinks that piece0shit is on to something here.

Yeah, I think he's on something, too.

6/19/2009 8:48:13 PM

Captain Obvious

Let me put it this way, if any of those ever became deluded enough to actually believe in their various fictions, then I would definitely set them straight.

6/19/2009 9:27:32 PM

The Watcher

(FACEPALM)

I'm not arguing with the book, I'm arguing with YOU! The idiot who thinks it's real!

6/19/2009 9:30:26 PM

Florian

The Watcher - BUT BUT BUT HARRY POTTER FANS! Y DONT U ARGUE WIF DEM LOL I M SO CLEAVER



...I can't believe I just wrote that.

6/19/2009 9:52:41 PM

Larsaan

There is a very big difference between being involved in a work of fiction and believing in a work of fiction.

6/19/2009 10:07:04 PM

Horsefeathers

"Let's engage in fantasy for a moment like Darwinists do and pretend that the bible wasn't written by God but by a fallible human author, particularly a fiction novelist since the secular world claims that the bible is fiction."

There's that word "Dwarwinist" again. Is it really the 1850s on your side of the internet?

"Would you argue and fight about words in a fiction book and try to change the words in it?"

Buddy, I'd argue about Dick and Jane if some fool kept telling me that Dick was coming to kick my ass if I didn't believe that Jane was my savior.

"How much time would you spend trying to change the ending of "Little red Riding Hood" to make the "Big Bad Wolf" into a good guy?"

None. Unless some jackass was trying to get Little Red Riding Hood taught in schools as actual history or some other stupid fucker was telling me the Big Bad Wolf was coming to blow my house down because I don't believe he exists.

"If a fiction author said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemned you to hell, would you get furious and slander the author?"

Yes, if the stupid fucker wanted it taught in schools. Or was burning people at the stake for the better part of a millennium for not believing him.

"Of course not...unless you had some kind of mental disorder."

So, the other guy is claiming Little Red Riding Hood, the Big Bad Wolf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster are real and I'm the one with a mental disorder for telling him he's full of shit?

Yeah, this sounds like fundy reasoning to me.

"Yet that's what the secular world tries to do with the bible that they claim is fiction. So either the secular world is so deluded that they can't tell fact from fantasy, or they know deep inside that the bible is the infallible Word of God, or both."

Nice false dilemma. There are other options such as your Wholly Babble is completely unsubstantiated. Nothing in it lines up with reality, be it scientific or historical fact outside of a few casual observations that anyone with two eyes and a functioning synapse could figure out. Yet you want to claim it's the Word of Gawd and I'm supposed to believe it.

Talk about delusional.

"That's called suppression. Suppression is when someone consciously tries to deny something he knows to be true in his sub-conscience. An example of that is an alcoholic who is drunk most of his life and denies that he as a drinking problem."

I, nor you for that matter, know any god exists. You may think you know. You may believe it's true but you do not know any such thing.

Given that we both have the same amount of evidence (i.e. diddly squat), why am I the irrational one for not believing it? Do you believe other things with no evidence for them?

"I've asked this same question before to atheists and their response was;

"We're not afraid of the bible, we're afraid of Christians who believe the bible.'"


I'm afraid of anyone ignorant enough to believe they have all the answers. Particularly when they believe all those answers are contained in a single fucking book that has been shown time and again for 2000+ years to be fucking wrong about damned near everything it states.

"My response to them is; Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)? Are you afraid of the fans of Harry Potter books? And better yet, do you curse the "Big Bad Wolf", Darth Vader or any other fiction character you consider a villain? If they tried to convince you that those books are true, would you argue with them? Or would you dismiss them as lunatics?"

Bingo on that last one. Hence my attitude toward yourself.

"So sorry, but trying to change the words of a book you claim is fiction betrays your real knowledge that you know the bible was written by God and is thus, true."

I have never, not once, tried to change a single word in your Wholly Babble. I like it just the way it is as it shows just how fucking wrong your beliefs are.

Leviticus is my favorite book, by the way. Read it some time and you may discover why.

"So God is right, as always, in Romans 1:18, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godless men who have suppressed the truth by their wickedness." That it is."

*Bzzzzt!*

WRONG!
You've first got to establish that a god of some kind exists. Next you have to show evidence that this god is your god. You then have to show that it had anything to do with this planet at any time, let alone having a hand in your specific book of fairy tales.

Then we can get around to figuring out what it may or may not think/feel/believe/do/say/etc. about whatever topic you'd like to discuss.

Quoting your book at me is useless until you show it has any validity at all.

"So instead of trying to prove God wrong or think you know better than God does, you would fare much better if you listened to Him because only He can determine your ultimate fate."

See above.

I don't waste my time trying to "prove wrong" unsubstantiated entities. Why, that would be as silly as attempting to hold a conversation with one. Wouldn't you agree?

6/19/2009 10:14:27 PM

Clown

Wow. Arguing with me is arguing with my GOD! How arrogant can you posibly get?

If some teacher really believed in HP and wanted to teach spells to ten year olds, I would have fought that too. Because, sooner or later, one child will try to fly from tenth floor of his solitaire. The same thing is with your religion.

6/19/2009 10:28:25 PM

observiNG

If a fiction author said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemned you to hell, would you get furious and slander the author?

Now wait a minute, FSM is real, and you very well may end up going to hell and drink stale beer for eternity!

Silly Christian. Sauce be with you. RAmen.

6/19/2009 10:28:30 PM

agentCDE

Logic is not this one's strong suit.

6/19/2009 10:38:06 PM

Count Zapolai

If a sufficient number believed any of that to be true to the extent that they believed it gave them the right to force those beliefs on others. I think that Scientology, for instance, is a far more obvious hoax than mainstream religions, but that doesn't stop me from getting pissed off at some of their activities.

6/20/2009 12:12:43 AM



Everybody starts to think that YOU are the one unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction, specially concerning Trekkies. By the way, even the most rabid Jewish sects and most mainstream Christian ones accept that the Bible was written by MEN. Ok, inspired by God, but men nonetheless. Not even that you got correct.

6/20/2009 12:16:10 AM



Basically, the guys you mention could tell me that those books are fiction and that the guys who wrote them are not God. So, yes, I have nothing against them.

6/20/2009 12:17:05 AM



Personally I have been fearing the Trekkie crusades for quite some time. The fundamentalists are the worst...

6/20/2009 2:12:02 AM

arcturus

"Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)?"

Yes. They scare me alot.

6/20/2009 2:25:43 AM

WWWWolf

> Let's engage in fantasy for a moment like Darwinists do and pretend that the bible wasn't written by God but by a fallible human author,

Well, ultimately it was written down by humans! If it was God's handiwork, why does it have so many blatant errors in it?

> Would you argue and fight about words in a fiction book and try to change the words in it? How much time would you spend trying to change the ending of "Little red Riding Hood" to make the "Big Bad Wolf" into a good guy?

Let's not mince words: Our culture is based on rehashing old ideas. Old stories are a breeding ground for new ones. In case you haven't noticed, even the Bible's stories have mutated into some other tales. You don't just necessarily always notice the source of the ideas unless you stop and think for a long time, with an analytical mind. In common parlance, this is what we mean by "creativity" and "originality".

And the original author of Three Little Pigs, whoever it was, is long gone and won't mind a bit if we revise the story. After all, back in those days, fairy tales were meant to be retold and even refined. Even today, we don't bat an eye if someone decides to help Big Bad Wolf get his rightful vengeance.

Note that stories exist in multiple versions. Stories don't have to be even consciously quoted. In the Bible, for example, Jesus uses an allusion to Aesop's fables when comparing false prophets to "sheep in wolf's clothing"; I don't know if Jesus ever heard the actual fable, or if he's just rephrasing something that entered the culture a few centuries before him. Existence of new versions of the stories doesn't wipe away the old ones, no matter how hard (say) Disney tries.

So basically: Borrowing stories is different from "changing" it. "Changing" a work of fiction is difficult or impossible.

> Of course not...unless you had some kind of mental disorder. Yet that's what the secular world tries to do with the bible that they claim is fiction. So either the secular world is so deluded that they can't tell fact from fantasy, or they know deep inside that the bible is the infallible Word of God, or both.

Waaaaait, wait wait wait. Let's rephrase. Your logic is based on the premise that it's completely okay to not argue about messing with fiction... And it's pointless to change words in an infallible work of truth.

But never once you mentioned what, in this whole mess of yours, is arguing for "changing" the Bible, and why?

Like I said, it's foolish to assume that some work that has had tremendous cultural influence, like the Bible, would get "changed". The stories have existed in their current form because people would know if they had been altered, and they have revered it as a holy book, hence as immutable as possible. As far as derivative works go, there has always been a difference between "Bible stories" and "Bible-inspired stories", because there's a faction who kept guarding its purity.

It's got nothing to do with whether it's Infallible Truth or not. We've had epic movies based on the Bible. We've had rap music featuring lyrics ripped straight from the Copyright Law. One is based on an alleged law book that sends you to hell. Another is based on a real law that could get you in a very real prison. Neither derivative work claims to be the real one; everyone understands that.

I guess there are shorter ways to summarise my point. My big point is that no one is arguing the Bible is fiction just to "change" it. It is a work that has influenced our society whether we've consciously tried it or not. People are arguing it's "fiction" for completely different reasons altogether.

Oh heck, I should stop now. But the post continues.

> Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)?

Being one, I know people should fear us! To borrow the phrase from the Opposing Camp: "The body odour is strong with these ones."

In a lot of ways, I've often been an obsessive fanboy. But I'm self-conscious about it. I make fun of it and make fun of everyone else. Mostly because I know we're ultimately harmless.

The same couldn't be said from certain "fanboys" of the Bible, I'm afraid.

> trying to change the words of a book you claim is fiction betrays your real knowledge that you know the bible was written by God and is thus, true.

So... if I write Star Trek fan fiction, I betray my true knowledge that Gene Roddenberry was God incarnate? I knew he was up to something!

I'm getting more and more confused! Please stop doing that!

6/20/2009 2:53:50 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

Let's engage in fantasy for a moment like Darwinists do and pretend that the bible wasn't written by God but by a fallible human author, particularly a fiction novelist since the secular world claims that the bible is fiction.

Would you argue and fight about words in a fiction book and try to change the words in it? How much time would you spend trying to change the ending of "Little red Riding Hood" to make the "Big Bad Wolf" into a good guy?

If a fiction author said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemned you to hell, would you get furious and slander the author?


Your analogy is flawed; you should be asking whether people would do that if they believed the fictional book to be true. (It's also worth pointing out that little red riding hood is fairly self-consistent, if overly simplistic, and generally read to children who haven't yet developed the ability to seriously criticise it on its depictive accuracy, whereas the bible is read by grown adults and contains copious, glaring errors and contradictions. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if smarter kids did take issue with some aspects of the story and demanded changes to suit their tastes.)

Your mistake could be deliberate in an attempt to skew the outcome of the thought experiment in your favour, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you aren't acting out of intellectual dishonesty, but are simply too fucking mentally atrophied to be capable of formulating a proper analogy.

6/20/2009 3:17:33 AM

Pule Thamex

You remind of that other insane ranter, David G. Stuart I think his name was, in that you are so engrossed in your savage fantasy and so enamoured of your inconsistent and immoral bible, that you must continually spout falsehoods.

Try and extricate yourself from this all-consuming whirlpool of stupidity. Engage your brain, and face up to reality in as intelligent a manner as you can muster. Then, there might be some hope of your recovery from this sucking-gloop of deceit and horror. It's possible that you may even be able to re-enter the real world of humanity.

EDIT. Actually, I think the guy's last name in the first paragraph should be spelled Stewart.

6/20/2009 3:51:34 AM

Scooby71

The original poster obviously hasn't been to any Twilight forums or (s)he wouldn't have tried this point.

(I don't recommend it, but there are some rabid fans)

6/20/2009 5:23:24 AM

Cy

Harry Potter fans don't believe the books are actually real, and they don't try and make anything to do with the Harry Potter universe into law. They don't want to force science teachers to "teach the controversy" about science vs. magic. They don't consider non-fans to be evil, depraved people who are going to hell. About the only thing fans of any series have in common with fundie Christians is that they generally have a go at converting you, though in the case of the fans, they generally don't mind if you say no or try it and don't like it. (Except for the Twilight fans. I'm scared of them.)

In fact, which community vehemently opposes the Harry Potter books? Oh, wait. That would be the fundamentalist Christians.

6/20/2009 5:51:44 AM
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