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Quote# 63399

(Review of "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens)

Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book? Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?

Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less, and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives. (see books "Makers and Takers" and "Who Cares More"). Surely they make good citizens? Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God.

This is not surprising. If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary. There isn't any right or wrong. Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive? Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?

And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism. There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out. Everything else is merely your opinion and experience versus mine. Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator? Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture? Without God there is no ultimate truth and no purpose to life. Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today.

God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness. And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God.

PS. To find God you need to repent first.

y Jeri Nevermind "loves to read", Amazon 73 Comments [6/24/2009 6:24:02 PM]
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aaa

Kid, mankind didn't get this far by praying for a mythical being and covering in fear. You want to know why aztecs sacrificed people? To satisfy their deities. Want to know why Pol Pot treated his subjects like shit? Because he feared the people of his own nation.

Just because life doesn't have a predetermined destiny, doesn't mean that you should just give up. I simply keep going, carving my own path. If anybody is foolish enough to stand in my way, i will find a way to clear him out of my way. I know the ultimate truth and it's a bit disappointing.

And from what i can tell from the history of mankind, Christianity has an impressive rap sheet. Not as long as the one on fascism, but still quite impressive.

6/24/2009 6:32:34 PM



"Christians...commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less"
LOL NO.

6/24/2009 6:32:41 PM

Daeva

Aztecs ripped out still beating hearts for THEIR GOD smart ass. Oh , and about the "christian love" I see more love come from pets. "KILL TEH GAYS" is the more "love" I hear from Christians. You guys spend so much time bickering and hating over a stupid book you forget to actually LOVE people and care about their needs, even if they are contrary to your dumb 2000 year old book.

6/24/2009 6:33:09 PM

Daeva

sorry , did a double post.

6/24/2009 6:33:41 PM

MK

"Christians give more to charity,"

Only because NOT doing so makes them feel afraid of going to hell.

"help others more,"

Citation please.

"commit adultery less,"

No. And of what value is "less" anyway? Should not being a Christian, with Jesus in your heart and God watching your every move, make you NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AT ALL EVER?

"cheat on their taxes less,"

No, again.

"and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives"

Atheism makes a difference in people's lives, too. It makes them realize that there's no threat of eternal torment, no promise of eternal reward, and that this is the only shot you have at making a difference.

" If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary"

I don't know about "pointless" but momentary, yes, you've got that right.

"There isn't any right or wrong"

Wrong.

"Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive"

Was it wrong for the Israelites to commit the mass-murder of the Midianites and rape their virgin women? Was it wrong for them to stone their rebelious sons, or condemn to death those who worked on the Sabbath? Was it wrong for a slave-owner to beat his Hebrew slave within an inch of his life, and escape punishment?

Read your damned Bible and get a clue.

"Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator? Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture? "

Yep, you're catching on to how society and morality work.

"Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today. "

Man, you're so close! Keep going, keep going...

"God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness."

That's not what the Bible says.

"And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God."

Hmmm. Most of the human beings that have made a difference to human culture and society have decided to conquer, tame, and subvert that howling wildnerness, not simper away and pray to God that he will nurse and pacify them.

6/24/2009 6:34:45 PM

Old Viking

It's amusing when fundies accuse others of hatred. It's also amusing that more murderers, adulterers, thieves, arsonists, pedophiles, scammers, bigots, tax cheats and semi-literates are Christian than any other category can come close to.

6/24/2009 6:37:07 PM

Amanda

Yes, there is right and wrong without a god, and yes, there is love, hatred, morals and ethics without a god. God has nothing to do with any of this, it's human nature.

6/24/2009 6:39:19 PM

Canadia

"Christians give more to charity."

Tell that to Bill Gates.

6/24/2009 6:43:51 PM

Moondog

Many churches forbid their members to smoke or drink, and indeed, in one state-by-state survey of smoking among US adults, the Mormon state of Utah was last. HOWEVER, the state that puffed the most was Kentucky, deep in the Bible Belt. Blue states with more atheists fell in between the two. So it seems religion doesn't keep humans from their bad habits, after all.

6/24/2009 6:52:43 PM

Ouabache

Christians... commit adultery less,

Yes, good Christians like Ted Haggard, Gov. Sanford and Newt Gingrinch would never ever cheat on their spouses.

cheat on their taxes less,

Jim Bakker, Kent Hovind...

6/24/2009 7:02:37 PM



D Laurier

"Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book?"
Because it isnt in the book. it's in your head.

"Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less,"
Actualy very few christians give to charity.
Christians are more likely to be unfaithfull, and most tax cheats are also christians.
You might want to look into that

" If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary"
Only to a fundamentalist.

6/24/2009 7:07:54 PM

Nick

Open up God is not Great and turn to the first page of text (it goes from left to right; the page numbers will help you). See the line of words near the top of the page? Read it and then every other line in the book in succession (you'll have to move to the tops of pages on the right, and turn them when you get to the end of each two-page spread).

6/24/2009 7:15:39 PM

JSS

"Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book? Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?"

Yes because no one would ever get angry if they were denied rights by a majority.

"Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less, and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives. (see books "Makers and Takers" and "Who Cares More"). Surely they make good citizens? Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God."

With a +50% divorce rate? Are you kidding me? You'll need to provide citations for the rest. And yes lives have been changed by Christianity. Just look at these "good" citizens:





"And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism. There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out. Everything else is merely your opinion and experience versus mine. Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator? Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture? Without God there is no ultimate truth and no purpose to life. Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today.
"


The bible has numerous places where it condones slavery yet we don't do that anymore, even the Christians (well most of them) agree this is wrong. I think it's laughable that you guys think you don't cherry pick the bible, supposedly God's Word. Anyway, you don't need a dictator to live morally.

"God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness. And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God.

PS. To find God you need to repent first."


So all of the sudden to think freely and not drink the fundie kool-aid is to be in the darkness?

6/24/2009 7:16:13 PM



How many times do you people have to be told, you don't need to believe in a god to have morals. What is evil? It's anything you do that hurts another person. Murder, theft, adultery, etc., are things that hurt other people and society in general. Sex between consenting adults, gay marriage, listening to rock music or looking at porn, and so on, do not hurt others and therefore are not immoral. Any of this sinking in yet?

6/24/2009 7:16:56 PM

The Skeptic Wept

@Canadia - "Christians give more to charity."

Tell that to Bill Gates.

And Warren Buffett too!

6/24/2009 7:18:53 PM

enna

The arrogance is astounding. Aren't christians supposed to be humble?

6/24/2009 7:20:55 PM

Mudak

Hitchens gets a bit more verbose than, say, Dawkins or Harris. Between that fact and this person's characterization of the book being reviewed, I suspect Jeri either didn't finish or didn't understand it.

6/24/2009 7:26:25 PM

Orestes

>Christians give more to charity

Because there are so many of you, of course that will weigh in your favor. Need I mention that Christians make up the exceeding majority of the prison population also?

>help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less

[citation needed]

>If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary.

What a pitiful life you live, that the only way to justify it is by claiming some sky daddy is making tabs on you.

>There isn't any right or wrong.

Christianity did not invent morality.

>Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive? Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?

Yes and yes, one, because you're a fucking idiot, and two, precisely because there IS no God, to take away someones already ephemeral existence is unforgivable.

You know what, no, I am not doing this, I do not have anywhere near the patience to continue.

6/24/2009 7:30:50 PM

A Friend

Oh noes! A big bad hatheist disagrees with me. Let me throw out the ole atheists don't have morals card, then let me make a bunch of claims without providing citations.
PS God wants you to twist your nipples while he calls you a bitch and rips out your pubes. Oh yes, repent you dirty sinners!

6/24/2009 7:32:32 PM

HoJuSimpson

Denial: not just a river in Africa.

6/24/2009 7:51:52 PM

Oirish_Martin

Ah yes, Nietzsche, that well known Christian apologetics master.

Funny how you'll cite him to prove your pro-God point?

6/24/2009 8:12:49 PM

Nowonmai

Concerning the bible: Why aren't Christians horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book? Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?

FIXED!

6/24/2009 8:26:27 PM

Horsefeathers

"Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book?"

Because it's not actually there?

"Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?"

It's hard to see things that aren't there. Sort of like your god come to think of it.

"Christians give more to charity, help others more,"

I'm pretty sure, no. And even if that were the case, so what?

"commit adultery less,"

I believe you'll find that fundamentalist Christians have among the highest divorce rates in the country and the most common reason is infidelity.

"cheat on their taxes less,"

You have an entire fucking segment of our culture that pays no taxes on its income. They're called churches.

"and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives. (see books "Makers and Takers" and "Who Cares More")."

Yeah, sure. Define "made a difference" in some meaningful way. As it is it could mean anything from a complete life altering shift in personality and behavior leading to a better person to a simple "warm and fuzzy" feeling. Aside from that it's almost always a completely subjective experience and, therefor, meaningless to everyone but the one experiencing it.

"Surely they make good citizens?"

Not according to prison statistics.

"Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God."

I'm sure your god will forgive him. That's sort of his job. At least that's what you religious folks keep telling me in between telling me I'm going to hell for not believing he exists.

"This is not surprising. If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary."

At its most basic, yes. Ultimately nothing you, I or anyone else will do on this planet will matter a great deal to the rest of the universe. What of it?

Since happiness is momentary you should first of all enjoy it as it's fleeting and second of all strive to create those conditions that produce it.

"There isn't any right or wrong."

Of course there is. Why would you think there's no right or wrong simply because your imaginary friend isn't there to threaten you?

"Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive?"

Uh, yes. If you really need to ask or be told why you have some serious problems with your critical thinking skills.

"Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?"

Holy fuck. You did ask "why".

It's wrong because you don't have any right to interfere with the continued existence of another person who isn't trying to do you immediate and gross bodily harm.

Ever heard of the Golden Rule? It's a hell of a lot better, and a hell of a lot shorter, than your precious Ten Commandments.

"And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism."

Consequences? Of atheism? This should be good...

"There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out."

Who said there is any such thing? The only ones I see saying such tripe are fools such as yourself. Everyone else seems to realize that "right" and "wrong" tend to depend on the circumstances.

"Everything else is merely your opinion and experience versus mine."

So?

"Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator?"

Human consensus. Inalienable rights tend to fall into the category of "I wouldn't want that to happen to me so I'd better make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else either". Since most everyone agrees on that the "right" is granted. No god needed.

"Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture?"

Essentially. Again, so what?

"Without God there is no ultimate truth and no purpose to life."

*gasp!*

Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?

Grow up.

"Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today."

Pretty much.

It must be a bitch to find out your not god's special little lap dog, right?

"God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness."

So says your moldy old tome of superstitions. How about you back it up with some evidence?

"And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God."

Uh, yeah. Sure.

"PS. To find God you need to repent first."

Why? God's Holy GPS doesn't work if I don't repent or what?

6/24/2009 8:35:53 PM

The Jamo

Is there such a thing as an accident? Maybe... just maybe the events that unfold within anyone's life are deterministic and nothing can happen any other way than that which we experience. Or maybe the world really is chaotic, unpredictable and unstable, where a decision born from some insatiable want or need is something that can never be predicted, never tested nor dissected. And maybe the events which we attribute to gods or spirits, intangible forces that dwell behind some astral veil are caused by nothing more than random happenstance and serendipitous coincidence, both oblique and striking in their nature that so often point us to the supernatural. Again, we find ourselves wanting there to be something more, something mysterious and otherworldly rather than this pathetic mortal coil. The truth is that we may never know what the nature of this world is, but is there any point, any reason in believing that there necessarily must be more than what is tangible and detectable? If we were to assume that the reality around us is, in fact, deterministic, would it devalue our lives in any way? Even if one was to know for sure that all their choices have already been decided ahead of time, those choices are still unknown and obscure until one experiences them in accordance with the context of the present moment. Technically speaking, it is pointless to even ask whether the universe is chaotic or deterministic since either of those answers would not lead us any closer to any more profound understanding of our lives. Likewise, it could be said that to believe in a omniscient god is to believe that everything is predetermined and that nothing can alter the course of things. Whether it devalues your life or not is a matter of personal philosophy, but what is painfully obvious is that a being such as that, an omniscient god, at least in the context of our collective reality, is completely unnecessary.

6/24/2009 9:02:42 PM

WMDKitty

Statistically, Christians are LESS charitable, commit MORE adultery, and cheat far more often on their taxes than atheists. Christianity may have changed their lives, but not for the better.

6/24/2009 9:11:54 PM
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