Home Archives Random Quotes Latest Comments Top 100 Submit Quote Search Log In

Quote# 63399

(Review of "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens)

Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book? Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?

Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less, and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives. (see books "Makers and Takers" and "Who Cares More"). Surely they make good citizens? Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God.

This is not surprising. If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary. There isn't any right or wrong. Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive? Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?

And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism. There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out. Everything else is merely your opinion and experience versus mine. Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator? Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture? Without God there is no ultimate truth and no purpose to life. Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today.

God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness. And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God.

PS. To find God you need to repent first.

y Jeri Nevermind "loves to read", Amazon 73 Comments [6/24/2009 6:24:02 PM]
Fundie Index: 52
WTF?! || meh
Username:
Comment:



1 2 3


So, why is it that the highest rate of all of the above that you say happens in the Biblical Belt?. Please, alternatives to no true Scotchman wellcome.

6/25/2009 9:13:05 AM

DevilsChaplain

"If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary. There isn't any right or wrong. Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive? Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?"

[size=50]Please don't write reviews about books you clearly haven't read.[/size=50]

6/25/2009 9:40:05 AM

DevilsChaplain

"If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary. There isn't any right or wrong. Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive? Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?"

[size=50]Please don't write reviews about books you clearly haven't read.[/size]

6/25/2009 9:42:36 AM

Zeus Almighty

@ Nowonmai for the win ...

Also, pointing out that religion is a mental illness is not hate.
You people talk to an invisible friend, who also happens not to exist.
While such activity is cute in a 4-year-old, when an ADULT does it it is a manifestation of craziness.
Now, if you assholes would keep such activity in your stupid little churches and STFU about it, and not knock on my door on Saturday mornings I would say live and let live. Even though you are poisoning the minds of children, at least they are YOUR children and the country will need counter help at McDonald's so you are performing a tiny bit of service to society by training your children for a future in those demanding jobs.


"I have seen the Jews run amok in Palestine like bloodthirsty beasts with no shame, and six million brainless Baptists demanding the death penalty without any trial at all for pagans and foreigners and people like me who won't pray with them in those filthy little shacks they call churches. They are like a swarm of rats fleeing a swoop fire, and I want no part of them. Indeed, I have my own faith and my own gods to worship, and I have been doing it with a certain amount of distinction for ten thousand years, like some fine atomic clock with ever-lasting batteries." -- Hunter S. Thompson


6/25/2009 9:45:58 AM

smartz

I'd like to see your evidence showing that "Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less, and, in thousands of other studies", and don't tell US to look it up, YOU are supposed to convince US with evidence YOU bring.
"There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out."

Hey, idiot. You just pulled a Nietzsche quote out of context, and I know you did because he HATED religions like Christianity. He claimed they go against the natural behaviors of man, by restricting them to do things they are meant to do (like have sex, eat whatever they want, dress however they want, etc.)

You are just posting this because you hate atheists and want to rant.

6/25/2009 10:02:31 AM

Sasha

Whenever someone tells me to "go ahead and look it up" when they make various claims, I know they don't have any evidence AT ALL. Pathetic liar.

6/25/2009 1:20:32 PM

Caustic Gnostic

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

6/25/2009 1:45:24 PM

Turtle

Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive?

That's... not atheism though. They had their own religion they believed was right, just like you do.

As surprising as it may be, some people can find meaning in life without pinning the meaning on someone or something else. I feel more at peace without having to wonder whether or not your god will make me burn for eternity.

6/25/2009 3:50:33 PM

The Watcher

If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary. There isn't any right or wrong.


6/26/2009 12:28:37 PM

Mitch

I'd be more worried if atheism ends up like off of South Park, which is bound to happen one way or another, it is impossible for one social group to be completely stable under complete control of everything - Just look at christian Europe.

6/26/2009 9:01:53 PM

Omni Noodle

And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism.

Oooo! The sinister overtones!

You've ignored the consequences of spouting the usual empty rhetoric: being laughed at.

6/27/2009 4:40:40 AM

Marc

Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book? Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?

Why aren't Christians horrified by the anger and hatred found in the bible? Do you all just not notice it because you are that way yourselves?

Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less, and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives. (see books "Makers and Takers" and "Who Cares More"). Surely they make good citizens? Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God.

Actually, studies have shown that that the ratio of theists to atheists in prison is higher than the ratio of theists to atheists in society.

That is, there are approximately 9 theists to every 1 atheist in society, while there are 99 theists to every 1 atheist in prison.

This is not surprising. If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary. There isn't any right or wrong. Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive? Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?

Was it wrong for the Inquisition to torture and kill people for "heresy?" How about killing native peoples for not converting to Christianity? The slaughter of the Canaanites? Were they not led by your god?

And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism. There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out.

But even with your god, you don't have "ultimate" morals. Your morals are just as relative as mine are. The difference is, I admit it.

Everything else is merely your opinion and experience versus mine. Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator? Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture? Without God there is no ultimate truth and no purpose to life. Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today.

Myths? No. Inalienable rights can come from reasoned arguments. We don't need god to tell us that all humans are equal (in fact, your god tells us we're not). We don't need your god to tell us that people should be free believe as they choose (in fact, your god tells us we're not).


6/27/2009 4:21:20 PM

Wandering Scribe

So, does God like an action because it's moral, or is the action moral because God says so?

In the first scenario morality is existent without your whimsical God, he just consents to existing morals. God didn't make the rules, he just agreed they were good.

In the latter scenario, God's rapidly changing whim can decide what constitutes morality. So morality is subjective and your God's flighty opinion (see the Old Testament) is what you're putting your life in the hands of.

In either scenario, God is either useless in, or undeserving of, the position he has been put in. Moral actions existed before your God, and if not, then the ruthless tyrant of the Old Testament is not who I want making the laws.

6/28/2009 2:37:05 PM



Why is something pointless just because it's momentary? If something is pointless because it isn't around forever, being around forever won't make it meaningful in and of itself. Zero times infinity is still a zero.

6/28/2009 8:07:14 PM

Giveitaday

Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book?

Why aren't christians horrified by the anger and hatred spread far and wide by the fundamentalists in their midst?

Why aren't christians horrified when members of their religion call for the cold blooded murder of muslims, gays, atheists, and countless others for no reason other than the fact that they hold different beliefs and/or live different lifestyles?

Why aren't christians horrified when their co-religionists who call for such attrocities claim to be speaking on behalf of all christians?

If you want critisize the state of your neighbors backyard then you should clean out your own backyard first. In words you should be quite familiar with... "Judge not, lest ye be judged."


Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?

There is no dogma to atheism, there is no worldview inherent in atheism, there are as many views in atheism as there are atheists. We aren't sheep, nor do we have a flock, and it is the height of ignorance to think that all atheist share, or even agree with the views of Hithchens, Dawkins, Dennet, or anyone else. So go ahead, paint all atheists with your own predjudices, just don't start bitching when they don't act how you say they do.

Christians give more to charity, help others more, commit adultery less, cheat on their taxes less, and, in thousands of other studies

They are also a much larger percentage of the population than non-christians but on a per capita basis that is simply not true. Their are no definitive studies that show that christians are in any way inherently better people than non-christians or atheists.

(go ahead and look it up)

No. You want to make that claim then you need to back it up yourself. It's not anybody else's place to do your research for you. If these "thousands of studies" existed and you were familiar with them then you would have cited them yourself, the fact you didn't speaks towards your dishonesty. If you christians are so inherently better than non-christians then why is it that you people constantly violate the 9th and 10th of your supposedly "sacred" commandments?

prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives

Good for them, that still doesn't make them inherently superior to non-christians. Atheism has made just as much a difference in the lives of atheists, many of whom come to discared the hatreds and predjudices against gays, muslims, atheists, and others that christianity had indoctrinated in them.

Surely they make good citizens?

That depends largely on the context. Those who wish to impose their religion on non-believers with the force of law, and in direct opposition to the founding priciples of this country are not very good citizens, nor are the fanatics that that murder or advocate the murder of other citizens that they percieve as enemies of christianity. Whether or not someone makes a "good citizen" can only be determined on a case by case basis.

Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God.

Hitchens doesn't speak for the atheist community as a whole, no one does. Atheists are far to diverse a group and not at all likely to line up behind a single spokesperson. As I said before, we are not sheep, we will not be herded into a single worldview or ideology. I'm sorry if that's not convinent for your propaganda, but it's the truth and not amount of pretending you don't hear that will change the facts as they stand. Christopher Hitchens speaks on his own behalf and no one else's, as it is his right to do so.

This is not surprising. If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary

You might think so, but that is not the opinion of most atheists. Most atheists do not believe there is any form of life after death, no ultimate reward, and that makes the one life they do have that much more precious. As for life being "pointless", that simply isn't the case, life is it's own point and not everybody feels they have to slavishly worship a deity to enjoy a fulfilling and happy life.

Atheists, for the most part, are not nihilists and they do not see life as bleak and pointless, and they certainly don't sit around hoping and praying for the end of the world to come and snuff out all those who don't agree with them. Unfortunetly the same cannot be said about many christians as a glance at Rapture Ready will show.


There isn't any right or wrong.

Atheism is not synonomous with moral relativism. Also it's not as if there are no blurring of the lines between right and wriong in christianity.

For example, there are commandments in christianity against Lying, false witness, and murder, but not a day goes by when I don't encounter a "good christian" who is more than willing to violate the first two if it will put him in a better light or discredit his opponent and then justify, excuse, or even advocate that last so long as it's being applied to someone who they see a inferior to themselves.


And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism.

Because there aren't any. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods and any "consequences" that issue from it are entirely personal. Atheism isn't a movement, it has neither tenets, dogma, or worldview and therefore does not haves "consequences" to society at large anymore than a lack of belief in mermaids or leprachauns does.

There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God

If the christian "god" provides an ultimate right or wrong then one would have to conclude that slavery is right as the bible endorses rather than condemns slavery. Social consensus recognizes that slavery is inherently wrong so therefore society itself must be acting in opposition to "god" by outlawing slavery. Either that or "god" changed his mind about slavery, in which case there is no ultimate "right" or "wrong", just the divine fiat of a capricious "god".

Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator?

They come from the consensus of society, just as the always have.

Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture?

No. Societal consensus will change as a society becomes more or less advanced, again just as they always have.

Without God there is no ultimate truth

Why? Why can't there be ultimate truth without a "god"? Why does there have to be an ultimate truth? Why can't there be ultimate truth to be found in scientific understanding?

no purpose to life.

What is the purpose of life if there is a "god"? Why does life have to have a greater purpose? Why can't life be it's own purpose? Why do you sell short humanity as little more than the playthings of a capricious and demonstrably malevolent "god", unable or unwilling to forge their own path and purpose in life?

The fact remains that you can only claim that there is no purpose without a "god", in particular the christian "god", so please tell me, why is it that non-christians and especially non-believers don't sink into an apathetic depression over their alleged "lack of purpose"? How is it that their lives remains full of happiness and purpose without paying fealty to your mythos and it's capricious "god"?


Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today.

As it has always been. Culture rise and fall, as do religions, their "gods" rise and inevitebly fall and are consigned to myth. Of the thousands of "gods" worshiped in the past, and even by humanity today it's always the same, each thinks that they, and they alone, have the monopoly on truth, that their "god" is the true "god" and all others are mistaken, mislead, or defiant servants of whatever it is that the religion considers "evil". Your religion is little differant than all the cookie-cutter religions that preceded it.

God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness. And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God.

There's a slight problem with your analogy, That problem being that you don't get to decide what someones opinion of their own life is, I know it makes things easier on you, being able to dictate how people feel about things, but the world doesn't work that way, life doesn't work that way. And you can no more describe someone else life without "god" than I get to describe yours as "slavish devotion to a quite possibly fictional tyrant".

PS. To find God you need to repent first

Most of the people you are lilely addressing will find the notion of "sin" to be ridiculous, also, IIRC in the bible your "god" revealed himself to many New Testament luminaries before they repented. You make an assumption that atheists just wrote of religion without so much as a second thought, In many cases that is not true. Many atheists have come to their conclusions after a long struggle to reconcile their questions with their faith, or in some cases attempts to strengthen their faith are met with deafening silence and more questions than before.

You misrepresent these people with your shallow and uninformed dissmisals of what sincerity they mave have had towards the religion they put behind them when came to the conclusion that their faith in it was misplaced and no longer tenable in the face of fallacies, unanswerable questions, and unresolvable conflicts. Ant yet you do not attack these people of their conclusions but simply because they no longer agree with you and you find that intolerable, it speaks volumes on just how shaky your "faith" really is, that it cannot abide dissent or challenge.

6/29/2009 7:55:02 AM

Angua

"Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book?Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?"

ARGH!
Yeah, just make broad sweeping statements about all atheists. That's what I like.
Here's a surprising idea. Some of us atheists don't like that book. I'm an atheist and there are several times I claim close to throwing the book across the room. Hitchens gets some of his facts wrong and it is pretty hateful. Not all atheists believe religion is evil. When I was reading that book there were times when I was angry and hateful too. But it was directed at Hitchens.

I don't say all Muslims are evil because Osama bin Laden is. I don't say all Christians are nuts because Kent Hovind is. Those would be dangerous generalizations to make. And seeing as the only thing uniting atheists is the fact that they don't believe in god, it's just as (if not even more) stupid to make generalizations about us.

8/14/2009 3:12:00 PM



"Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?"

Are you seriously - SERIOUSLY - saying that the only way you can assess whether this is right or wrong is to look it up in the Bible to see what God said? SERIOUSLY?

Bullshit. Now shut up.

12/1/2009 7:09:14 AM

Anon-e-moose

"Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book?"

Because he's an Atheist. DUH??!! And as for his 'Conservatism' and support for the Iraq War, I suspect he was merely trolling the fundies, just to get their heads to explode at the 'paradox' he represents: 'a right-wing Atheist?!'

12/1/2009 10:02:32 AM

Dr. Shrinker

Please show me where in your bible it says that Abram (Abraham's original name) repented before he found god? Let me save you the trouble, there is no such passage. Care to tell us why you are pushing a book on us that you clearly haven't read?

12/1/2009 11:21:19 AM

GigaGuess

Why aren't atheists horrified by the anger and hatred you find in this book? Do they all just not notice it because they are that way themselves?
Oh? That must be why I heard the good Christians raging about WBC's antics, right?

Christians give more to charity...
I assume you have statistics to back this then? Because I know that there are several atheists that give generously...Bill Gates being a major frontrunner. Also, how many charities do you give to, besides your church...?

...help others more...
Generally with a heaping dose of proselytizing with any aid given.

...commit adultery less...
Statistics. You has none.

...cheat on their taxes less...
Kent Hovind would disagree, just for starters.

...and, in thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives. (see books "Makers and Takers" and "Who Cares More").
Yes, I doubt there would be any bias in those books. You take the good people of one group, and compare them to the worst of another...yeah...

Surely they make good citizens? Not to Hitchens, lost as he is in spite and hatred for God.
What faith one subscribes to does not automatically quantify good or bad, just for the record. To hedge Godwin here, Hitler was a Catholic, and did horrific things. Bill Gates is an atheist, and gives millions to charity, as previously mentioned.

This is not surprising. If there is no God, then life is pointless and happiness momentary.
No, it becomes all the more precious because this is all there is, so better to not waste it, and savor it while it lasts.

There isn't any right or wrong.
If it causes direct harm to someone, it's pretty much invariably wrong, and if you need a God to tell you that, I feel great pity for you.

Was it wrong for the Aztecs to rip out the still beating heart of a captive?
To us, of course it is. To them, they were doing so out of fear of their deity, doing the only thing the thought would placate it.

Was it wrong for the cadres of Pol Pot to murder everyone over the age of twenty? Why?
Of course it was. Why does a person need to believe in God to know that killing people who are somone's brother...sister...mother...father...what have you is wrong just for the harm to their loved ones, not to mention senslessly killing them because you wish to maintain power. Now shall we talk about the good Christians that have used the Bible to justify murder? Starting with many innocent women being hanged as witches in Salem...

And Hitchens simply ignores the consequences of atheism.
That being?

There can only be an ultimate right and wrong in this world if there is a God, as Nietzsche so acidly pointed out.
And so precious little can fall into this category, to subscribe to it fully is flat out juvenile. Man has a gun to your loved one's head. He will kill loved one if you do not kill him, or at least stop him. You kill him, or at least harm him to stop him, is it still murder/assault then? Because surely, there is only right or wrong, yes? And murder and assault is wrong...

Everything else is merely your opinion and experience versus mine.
Exactly. It's not actions that are necessarily wrong. It's the context that sways it.

Where do unalienable rights come from without a Creator?
Realizing that treating one another with dignity and respect requires belief? Hunh?

Aren't they just the currently agreed upon myths soon to be changed by the next culture?
Some, pretty much, yeah. Others are pretty static.

Without God there is no ultimate truth and no purpose to life.
If you cannot find your purpose in life, finding God will not change that.

Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die, and it will all be sound and fury and as utterly pointless as whether or not it's windy today.
And how will faith in a God, or specifically your God change that?

God found Abraham in a desert land, in a place of horror, in the howling wilderness. And this is Hitches' real problem: that howling wilderness is life without God.
And the serenity and placidity you present is nothing more than a mask...an illusion. Your followers will feigh their bliss and contentment, but on the inside, they are fighting their basic nature, fighting to burst free.

PS. To find God you need to repent first.
And to repent, you must make a sizable donation to a church of your choosing, correct?

12/1/2009 12:19:42 PM

Justanotheratheist

"Cultures will rise and fall and men will live and die."

As if it hasn't happened time and again, and as if it is not happening right now.

And my life without God has not been a "howling wilderness."

PS I have read the book. It's excellent.

11/25/2010 3:30:48 AM



Oops, forgot to put in my username. It's Swede.
(If you couldn't guess that from the last two sentences.)

thousands of other studies, (go ahead and look it up) prove that Christianity has made a difference in their lives.
Your claim, ergo your task to find the reference, stupid!

Makers and Takers review:
Schweizer refrains from making substantive commentary on the upcoming election; he spends more time attacking Garrison Keillor, for whom he reserves a special distaste. The readable prose and vigorous defense of Republican voters ensure that this book—despite its dated material and lack of analysis of the current campaign—will rally and rouse conservatives. Source
You were saying?
Plus, somewhat false dicotomy if used on societies outside the US, where there are often several more groups than just Conservatives and Liberals.
In Sweden, both those two are right-wing. On the left-wing we have Socialists and Communists, and then we have the Environmentalists in the middle.

11/25/2010 5:15:59 AM

Saringuy

'tax evasion'

oh noes, not like Kent Hovind maybe?

4/16/2012 3:18:11 AM
1 2 3