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Rat of Steel

As I'm the first to post in this thread, I might as well get it over with now...



Digest this, if you can.

Cj

Oh, yeah, they made it real clear. It's all right there in the Constitution...oh, wait.

Tallyho

For those who say we are not a FSM nation, you are in the minority. America was founded as a FSM nation and the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces. All we have to do is look at the information with reason and without malice to the FSM or those who promote The FSM, and of course, they will need to receive the information without hatred of those who believe in the FSM, His Noodly appendages and the sacred meatballs. Once non-believers can get by that, then perhaps they will have the ability to see the information and digest (mmmmm spaghetti) it in a meaningful manner.

Fixed - or at least ammended to make just as much sense.

Ummm...no we're not in the minority, in case you missed it, there was a landslide victory in the election last year of a guy who has said that America is no longer a Christian nation but a nation of all faiths that even has a place for people who don't hold any particular faith at all. You guys screamed about this for months, claiming he was blaspheming and mocking god, but people don't give a crap because it's not like he was stating some radical new idea. Tell me you guys aren't stupid enough to actually believe that Acorn stole those 8+ million votes? Why don't you listen when the country tells you something loud and clear? Why do you hate America?

Tindalos

All we have to do is look at the information with reason and without malice to Christianity or those who promote Christianity, and of course, they will need to receive the information without hatred of those who believe in God, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost (Spirit). Once non-believers can get by that...

Logical Fallacy: Special Pleading = phail

RavenWood

"If everyone denied the truth like I do, they could be diluted idiots like me."

Fixed it for you.

awitch

"For those who say we are not a Christian nation, you are in the minority"

I didn't know truth was a popularity contest...

Doctor Whom

Yet people still wonder where sites like this get their ideas.

Mister Spak

"America was founded as a Christian nation and the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces. "

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptists, 1802



"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason and right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination.

Thomas Jefferson's Autobiography


Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, chapter 2;


EVERY national church or religion has established
itself by pretending some special mission from God,
communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have
their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their
apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet; as
if the way to God was not open to every man alike.

Each of those churches shows certain books, which
they call revelation, or the Word of God.
The Jews say that their Word of God was given
by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say,
that their Word of God came by divine inspiration;
and the Turks say, that their Word of God
(the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven.
Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief;
and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.


And;

It is a contradiction in terms and ideas
to call anything a revelation that comes
to us at second hand, either verbally or
in writing. Revelation is necessarily
limited to the first communication.
After this, it is only an account of
something which that person says was
a revelation made to him; and though
he may find himself obliged to believe it,
it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it
in the same manner, for it was not a
revelation made to me, and I have only
his word for it that it was made to him.

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous
debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions,
the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than
half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent
that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God.
It is a history of wickedness that has served to
corrupt and brutalize mankind."
-Paine


"If we look back into history for the character
of the present sects in Christianity, we shall
find few that have not in their turns been persecutors,
and complainers of persecution. The primitive
Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in
the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The
first Protestants of the Church of England blamed
persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced
it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops,
but fell into the practice themselves both here
(England) and in New England."
-Franklin


"I looked around for God's judgments,
but saw no signs of them."
-Franklin


"Millions of innocent men, women and children,
since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced
an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect
of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and
the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and
error all over the earth."
-Jefferson

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments,
instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion,
have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries
has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial.
What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places,
pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility
in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-Madison


"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is,
a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of
fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish
and Christian revelation that have made them the most
bloody religion that ever existed?"
-Adams

"Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."
[George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]


"The day will come when the mystical generation of
Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin,
will be classed with the fable of the generation of
Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson


"It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be
mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not
consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists
in professing to believe what one does not believe.
It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief,
if I may so express it, that mental lying has
produced in society. When man has so far corrupted
and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to
subscribe his professional belief to things he
does not believe, he has prepared himself for
the commission of every other crime."
-Thomas Paine, patriot: "Give me Liberty or Give me Death".


"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel,
vindictive, capricious, and unjust." Thomas Jefferson


"[T]he government of the United States of America is not,
in any sense, founded on the Christian religion[...]" - Thomas Jefferson

Ethan Allen From Religion of the American Enlightenment:

“Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.”

John Adams From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:

“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

And John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:

“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
--Thomas Jefferson

Eden

All we have to do is look at the information with reason and without malice to Christianity or those who promote Christianity, and of course, they will need to receive the information without hatred of those who believe in God, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost (Spirit)

Let me guess....
if we use shorter sentences this means:
All we have to do is look at the constitution (and other relevant documents) just as we look at the bible i.e. to selectively read it and afterwards twist its words so long, till we can come to the conclusion, that the constitution exactly says, what we want it to say

;)

The Watcher

For those who say we are not a Christian nation, you are in the minority. America was founded as a Christian nation and the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces.

Non sequitur!

Swedish Pagan

Erm, I am not an American, but I still know that the consitiution says something completely different than your drivel.

When you look at the information with reason and without malice to people of other faiths and to atheists, then we can talk.

I bet very, very few in the US feel malice towards normal Christians, as most of them are Christians themselves. It's the rabid fundies and their "shoot first and ask questionos later" attitude towards anyone who's not True Christian (whatever that is), that irritates people.

1st Ammendment, Treaty of Tripoli, 6th Article of the US Constitution, the fact that the Constitution allows us to break every one of the Ten Commandments... Yeah, the founding fathers pointed out all to clearly that we're a Christian nation. [/sarcasm]

werewolf

Prove it.

Horsefeathers

"For those who say we are not a Christian nation, you are in the minority."

Only because there such an excess of people that are seemingly completely uneducated about the history of their own country or of its founders.

"America was founded as a Christian nation and the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces."

See what I mean?

Look, pal, most of the Founding Fathers were not Christian by the standards of someone such as yourself. The rest were, at best, deists.

Try reading some of their writings. Particularly Washington, Jefferson and Franklin.

Hell, Jefferson published his own version of the Bible and removed all of the supernatural bullshit in it. Jesus stayed dead. Now, tell me, what kind of Christian would do that?

"All we have to do is look at the information with reason and without malice to Christianity or those who promote Christianity, and of course, they will need to receive the information without hatred of those who believe in God, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost (Spirit)."

Fine. You do that. And then come back and tell me with a straight face that this country was founded by Christians, for Christians.

"Once non-believers can get by that, then perhaps they will have the ability to see the information and digest it in a meaningful manner."

Once you get past the bullshit you're shoveling maybe you can see reality and contemplate it in a meaningful manner.

TheReligiousCommie

The founding fathers were all nontheists, deists, quakers and unitarians to a man.

JSS

Amendment I of US Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Dr. Novakaine

More anti-American sentiment from the religious right. You're not fooling anyone, you know, at least not anyone who isn't already a fool.

As for your "Founding Father's" claim (apostrophe abuse!), Mister Spak said everything that needs to be said: the exact quotes of the Founding Fathers.

Zoo

Facts are not decided on a majority rules basis, sorry.

Pule Thamex

Whatever. Though it does sound as though you're a nation where one could easily associate religious fundamentalism with a poorly educated, largely ineducable, lower class population. Admittedly, that's true of many nations, it just seems so prevalent there.

JonnyTruant

"For those who say we are not a Christian nation, you are in the minority."

Because history is democratically created 200 years after the fact.

Lucilius

By the same "logic" (cough, snort), America was founded as a brown-haired nation and the Founding Fathers made that as plain as the stuff under their wigs.

Get out, you blonde-haired sinners! Away from me, thou foul redheads! Bow before me, shameful baldies! You're in the minority, so the United States must always and only be a brown-haired nation. And, of course, I don't just say this because I happen to have brown hair.

John

the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces

"no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (US Constitution, Article VI, Section 3)

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." (Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11)

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." (Thomas Jefferson, Danbury Baptist letter)

Yeah, that's plain alright!

"For those who say we are not a Christian nation, you are in the minority. America was founded as a Christian nation and the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces."

I'm guessing you don't have a nose, as Article Six of the United States Constitution provides that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States".
IF the founding fathers had intended this to be a "Christian nation" ruled by christians would they have included that? Ya becha they wouldn't!

"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." -- George Washington

ireadabouttheafterlife

"America was founded as a Christian Nation and the Founding Father's made that as plain as the nose on our faces."

LMFAO.

America was founded as a nation with religious freedom BECAUSE the founding fathers were mostly atheists, agnostics, and deists.

All in all, YOU FAIL.